S: Do I struggle with the value of art? Could you be more specific?

Q: --

S: Do I struggle with my own talent?

Q: --

S: Yeah, yes. He wants to know do I question, do I think there's something else...yeah, everyday I get up and go: "Maybe I should do something really useful." But the thing is when I was working as a receptionist. I had this job as a receptionist, office manager and I used to go on my lunch hours and go to the record shop; the local record shop and stand in front of the records and try and decide which one I had enough money to buy. Music meant everything to me at that point. I mean...music meant everything...The day existed so I could go home and listen to music. It was the same as a teenager in high school. I would go home so I could listen to music. I try to remember that...it meant everything...it was my lifeline to the world. I was very isolated kid and very unhappy one. so it was really...so I remember that.

Q: --

S: Where there are days where I go...If you start thinking in that kind of mentality...if you start thinking about: "How come my records don't go platinum? How come I didn't get invited to the Grammys? How come this? How come that? How come I'm not on the cover of XYZ? And you start being an asshole. You just have to remind yourself that that's not what you're there for. That's not what your job is. It's not to be a fashion plate or to go...when "Luka" happened it was wild and I wasn't really prepared for it in some ways. I was really glad that it happened because it really enables me to go around the world and to sing and to have the audience and to appreciate it. At the same time it's really not...when I get myself into that nasty certain...whining...mode I have to get myself over it otherwise it just makes you crazy.

Q: Was the success of "Luka" frightening for you as well as an exhilarating thing for you?

S: Yeah, it was frightening because you feel yourself being blown up out of proportion. I mean, I've always felt life size or smaller sometime. I mean the songs are all about being small. So to feel yourself being blown up into a cartoon is a very peculiar thing. Everything is questioned. Why do you wear black? Why do you have a short haircut? Why don't you wear more make-up? Why are you so skinny? Why are you so pale? Why are you this? Why are you that? Why do you play acoustic guitar? What's "Luka" about? Why do you wear that...? And if you take it all personally you just end up like you don't want to get dressed in the morning. You know, you don't want to wear anything because it's going to be questioned. That's what I found really scary and I finally had to put a lid on it. I had to say look, I'm not going to tour anymore, I'm not talking to anyone, I'm just going to go home. I really want the whole thing to shrink back down. Even though I could tell it was a once in a lifetime possibility; a once in a lifetime experience and something I had wanted. It was just a strange feeling. I felt like I had to put the lid on it and go back.

Q: Do you have good people around you to help you deal with a lot?

S: Yeah, well, my managers are good and everyone was excited and caught up in it. when I think back to that year and I think that I sold out Radio City Music Hall and I sold out Carnegie Hall for two nights. And all that happened in one year. But my family, for example, are the same. I mean, all of them were looking at me..and also my family there was always this expectation that we would go out into society and do stuff. Two brothers and a sister and there was just this expectation that we would go...that we would go do stuff. So I was doing my stuff and it was expected that I would. They didn't expect me to turn into some asshole so I wasn't going to.

Q: --

S: -- don't go where people are saying: "Oh, you need more technique" or "Oh, you really need voice lessons" or "Why haven't you learned to read music?" Don't go to those people. Go to where there's other people who are hanging out and where it feels right. To me that was Folk City. Once I hit Folk City, I had a wonderful time and I was there for several years doing gigs. I tried to expand my base. I tried to play other places in New York City. I went to Boston. I would go to these coffee house circuit conventions and I would get a couple of gigs there. Not many because I think that most people thought my material was not really very wholesome. I mean, I wasn't doing sing-a-long stuff. But I would get maybe one gig or two gigs and they would pay $500.00. So I would go to play a college up in Watertown. You could get $500.00. So I would take my vacations from my job and go play a few gigs here and there. I started a mailing list. Everybody came up to me and said: "Oh, I think you're really interesting" or "I think your songs are interesting" or "I like you" or whatever and I would take their name and I would make-up these fliers and send them out. I would play anyplace I could...anyplace. I guess stuff had gotten to the point at Folk City where I just started depressed to come down. Now that was a ticklish spot there because I remember asking Steven Holden to watch my set and just fell right on my face and proceeded to be really terrible that night. He wrote something about how this new generation of folk singers isn't quite up to the old generation. But right about that time, I met the person who became my manager and he had a partner who became my producer. So I met my manager Ron Fierstien and we went out lunch. He said, "What do you see for yourself? How would you like to...?" And I said, well, "I want to make records." And he said, "Well, I think we should try and get you a major label" And I said, "That sounds great...please do." But I probably would have settled for something small.

Q: How did you meet your manager? I mean, that's really sort of a key question.

S: I met him because I was part of the Fast folk Musical magazine at that point. I don't know if you're familiar with the Fast Folk Musical magazine it was a folk music magazine that came out once in a while it was on vinyl back then. I had sent my records to...I guess 4 of them telling him about the Fast Folk Musical magazine also including the ones that had my song on them. It got played on the radio and I had a friend who was a lawyer who worked with the guy who was my manager, who became my manager. He hadn't managed anyone at that point, he was a lawyer who was looking to quit his job and go into management. It was through a friend. It wasn't as if I was out shopping or looking. I was making my demo tapes, doing my mailing list, getting press and just keeping writing and keeping my songs and just generally being part of the scene down at Folk City. The thing that I liked about Ron was that, first of all he didn't talk to me like managers. He didn't suggest I wear anything or not wear anything. He didn't make any extravagant claims like: "Hey baby I'm gonna make you a star." He just said, why don't we make you a demo tape. At the end of the year, at least you'll have a demo tape and at best, you'll have a record contract. So that's how that happened. We made a demo tape and it got shopped around. It was rejected by every single major label including A & M who rejected it twice before they came around. He was very very persistent and kept pounding on the doors. In the meantime, I kept playing and getting press and finally it turned around.

Q: --

S: Do you want to talk about "The Queen and the Soldier" now or do you want to talk about more business and then I'll play "The Queen and the Soldier"? Is there anyone else who has more business type...you know...how did you meet your manager type questions?

Q:--

S: You want to hear about that? The manager is traditionally the go between you and the record company. These days, I mean, I've been with the record company for ten years so I can call them. My relationship with my manager is also unusual because I signed two contracts with him. I signed a production contract, a management contract, and publishing right. Most of the time, these days, you sign a management contract and the manager's the manager and he's not also your publisher and your producer. So that's different. I don't know if you want to get into...a producer is the person who comes in to arrange your band. They dress the song for you. You write the song and they put a dressing on it. So it depends on whether they can point at a song in anyway...they can make it grunge, they can make it alternative, they can make it top 40, they can make it folk, they can try. You've got to write the song. A producers job is to sort of dress the song. We're getting into really specialized territory here.

Q: --

S: In the very beginning, I did produce my own...I was 16 or 17 and I mean, I had no choice. I mean what was I going to do go out and hire somebody? No. I played the guitar. There are some very early demos from when I was 16 and it's just me and the guitar.

Q: In a studio or at home? How did you do that?

S: I had a friend who was a pianist and she let me come over and sing. I was just doing demos all the time. There's also my way of copyrighting my material which is to record it on cassettes and then mail it to myself. I have tons of these little packages made to myself. My compulsive side I think.

Q: I'm wondering if your writing habits have changed as you continue to write? Are you becoming more disciplined? Do you sit down a certain amount of time every day and write or is it still as inspirational? I'm assuming you originally began writing songs out of inspiration and I'm wondering if there's been any alteration or change in your approach to the craft? Has it become more...you see my point...?

S: Yeah, it's changed because now I do just anything that'll work. In the beginning I used to wait for it to all hit and now sometimes I wait for it to hit or I start on something and I go to the rhyming dictionary or sometimes I start something and think it's awful then throw it back in the pile.

Q: But are you more disciplined now?

S: No

Q: Do you set aside more time per day and say: "Oh, I have to sit down and spend so much time or...?

S: No, I'm not disciplined. I have a six month old baby...

Q Congratulations.

S: So I find it's gone right out the window. Any discipline I might have even pretended to have has just like out the door.

Q: And being an established artist as you are - has that freed you up for the ability to pursue other things in your life for inspiration? And beside your child, obviously, what other sources of inspiration might those be?

S: I think the things that inspired me back then are still the things that inspire me. I still have to get out walk. I still have to walk in the streets.

Q: Do you go to travel to perhaps places that you couldn't afford to go before or do things...

S: Ah, yeah, I tour a lot. I mean, that's the thing. Now I find I have a lot less time to write. There is a period of time when I write and I only write and I can't do publicity while I'm writing. And then there's a time when the album comes out and I do publicity and that's all I do: publicity, publicity, publicity and I can't write. And then, I tour. And I tour my butt off and I do publicity. And I don't write, because you can't. So, even though I may be in Liverpool it's got nothing to do with affording it or not it's got to do with where I'm working. And I'm still attracted to the same things I am back here in New York. I don't...it's not that I'm suddenly in Switzerland and I'm inspired by the Alps. I'm still...I love walking through a dirty little town like New York and I'm inspired by similar scenes pretty much everywhere I go so it's not as though...I can write like "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous". I just can't do it.

Q: So you didn't necessarily write "In Liverpool" when you're in Liverpool?

S: Well, I was writing in my journal while I was in Liverpool and I wrote some of it down because it was interesting to me and...but it wasn't because I'm more famous now. I was attracted to it and I wrote it. I think I answered your question.

Q: Ah, yeah, basically I was just wondering how your writing habits have changed?

S: My writing habits have changed because I find that I can't keep going back to the same thing. To keep it interesting for myself, I have to do other things. I have to...I asked Leonard Cohen a question once and I said, "When you write a song, do you confess? Do you feel it's important to write a confessional song or do you feel it's important to make it up? And he said, "you confess or you lie or you do whatever you have to do to make it work." And he's right. You just do whatever...you lie, you make it up, you do whatever you have to do and that's pretty much it.

Q: Are you about to come out with another album?

S: The next album will probably come out some time next year.

Q: So what point are you in right now? Are you in the writing process right now?

S: I'm at the terrifying, really nervous, like writing ideas down going, "God this really sucks. I don't know if I'm going to make another record again." You know it's one of those things where I'm just dragging my feet around the city. I have stuff. I have stuff I've written. I have verses, I have choruses, I have titles and I have lines...but it's like, it drives me nuts. Every time it's the same thing. I just go, "This is really awful." I remember even between the first album and the second album, "I'll never write another song, I can't possibly do this again."

Q: You won't go into the studio though until the songs are done.

S: Probably. yeah, well, I'll probably go in and do some preproduction before hand because that really worked out good with the last album.

Q: --

S: Yeah, I've tried doing that. I find that I can't do that. For a while I had a studio in my home. That's how we did some of "Days of Open Hand". That drove me right up the wall. Like, uh, as a woman who has a studio in my home I found myself cooking for everybody and...I'm not doing my vocals and I'm not doing my work. I'm playing hostess and doing anything I can do to get myself away. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Some people love it but I hate it.

"The Queen and the Soldier"

S: You are going to ask me, what provoked this song. That's a really hard question to answer. I can't really tell you. To tell you I'd have to tell you way more about my history and childhood than you'd ever want to know. It's not a literal kind of song. I remember once before I had written any song. I remember in order to get an idea you get a vision of the song...vision is too big a word for it but you get an idea and I had this image of a castle and a hill and weather and a queen and at first I had 2 queens like "Alice in Wonderland" - I had a red queen and green queen. So I tried that for awhile and that wasn't going anywhere. It was just really stupid. So, I got rid of one of the queens and I moved the fight to the outside of the castle and I had the soldier come up to the door. All of a sudden it just all fell into place. The one detail of the song that has come from actual life is the thread because that's the only part that doesn't make logical sense. The Queen swallows a thread. The actual thing in my life is that I had a cat that swallowed a thread off the bottom of the curtains and he had to be put to sleep because it tore itself up inside. This had happened a few months before. So I had to figure out what the reason was for this Queen to be so cruel and I had decided it was because she had swallowed this thread which...there are other...the thread does stand for other things but I can't tell you what they are...that's about as much as I can tell you.

S: I'm sorry I'm not that good at Spanish I've lost a lot of it but your question is "how can Lucy complain..."

Q: There is a intricate part of the industry that forces osmosis to happen but people come ... My partner and I have a small promotional agency out of Albany New York and because we have no name no one returns our phone calls. I met Lucy ... originally at the Bottom Line and she said, Gee, I'd love to do some amazing stuff but I've never heard of you guys plus the fact that I don't have a manager so I'll get back to you but I've worked with certain people in the past.

S: I'm sorry, you're going to have to make your question more simple.

Q: OK, the simple part of the question is that, how do you guys communicate with each other.

S: How do I communicate with Lucy Kaplanski?

Q: How do performers in general?

S: It depends on if I know them, obviously. Lucy Kaplanski is a singer and a songwriter. She came up from the Folk scene. I was her roommate 10 years ago. She sang back up on "Left of Center". So your question is, how do artists communicate with each other?

Q: That's right.

S: Through peoples managers. If I want to talk to somebody...I don't know, Prince...or Leonard Cohen. I try to find out who his manager is, I have my manager contact his manager. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But now you seem to be very frustrated. Now what is the problem here. You have a booking industry and you have no name in New York City and you're talking to Lucy Kaplanksi and she said she'd like to work with you but you have no name and she has no manager?

Q: Yes, at the time, she's just done something on Warehouse Records.

S: Right, which Shawn Colvin produced. And what's the problem? You want to work with Lucy and she doesn't want to work with you?

Q: Because another reason also is that she'd like to be a part of more established acts such as yourself.

S: She wants to be part of more established acts such as myself.

Q: In other words, she's trying to get back into the scene. Because she burst onto the scene 10 years ago...

S: I tell you what, everybody starts from ground zero. Every time out. And that's difficult. I mean it's a hard fact but it's true. For example, when I was 16 years old and I had my demo tape and I sent my demo tape to Judy Collins. I thought well, maybe, she would like my songs. And I got this letter saying, "Dear Miss Vega, Miss Collins does not accept unsolicited material. Thank you very much. Good bye." I have that letter. The fact is she's a recording artist. If I get a tape from one of you guys or a singer songwriter, it's not likely that I can do very much with it. I don't have my own record company. I've produced a demo tape for a friend of mine named Brian Rose. I tried shopping it for a while. I tried to see if I could get him a record deal. It's like hell on wheels. It was really hard. Even though I have my own recording career, and I find most of the same thing with an album that I have a history and a name that I find I still have to come up with the goods myself. I can't ride on the coat tales of what happened 7 years ago. So, if Lucy wants to get back into the scene you have to start over again. You have to get the press, you have to get a manager. Brian Rose can be my best buddy and my best friend and he can come over to my house and stuff but that doesn't mean I can help his career. I can even have him open for me on a gig and that doesn't guarantee anything. I've had tons of opening acts. So, I don't know if I'm answering your question.

Q: That's about sufficient. But what would it take for someone to be your opening act?

S: First of all, I'd have to be on tour. That might seem funny but I have to be touring. There's no point in someone trying to be my opening act if I'm going home. That's one. Two is that...you have to do it through people's managers. You get the word out. There's also booking agents. You have a booking agency. I have an agent who books the tours for me. And also, the sad fact about that, and this is something I don't like in the industry and something I wish would change, a lot of times you can get to be someone's opening act if you're willing to pay money. And, the more money you pay the more likely is that you can get on the bill. That way the headliner act doesn't lose as much money on the tour. Which means I've had some horrible opening acts because the record company is willing to pay thousands of dollars for some horrible German band to be on the bill and it's disgusting and I'd prefer not to do it in the future.

Q: You used to say at one point that you went through musical phases. For instances, "Black Widow Station" was, correct me if I'm wrong, reminiscent of your Steely Dan phase. Do you consider yourself still...

S: I said that, huh?

Q: At least you said that once. Do you still consider yourself still going through these phases? If so, who are the artists that you listen to now?

S: Yeah, I guess I work in phases. Although, I'm much more likely to say the last one was my Nine Inch Nails phase. Actually, the last album, what I was trying honestly to do was make an album that had no references. I was trying to make a record that was not like any other record. If it was any record at all it might have been Swordfish Trombones...because that was a record that took him out of what he had been previously in and put him out in a field by himself. But it wasn't as if I sat and listened to the record and tried to imitate it. In fact, I do that less now. I just try and write without trying to imitate. I tend to get infatuated by certain bands and certain music and I just fall in love with it and hang around and listen to it all day long and that I go out of it...

Q: [inaudible]

S: Song of Sand? It was intended to be about the Gulf War. It was probably as close to a political song as I'll ever get.

Q: [inaudible]

S: yeah, that was the reference.

Q: [inaudible]

S: I'd like to say I've become cynical. She wants to know if coming from a political family, she doesn't observe any politics in my music. I'd say there is no overt politics in my music. I'd feel like a jerk if I wrote about the Democratic party ...or some specific politician. The fact is that going to a lot of rallies and singing... And, I've had bitter fights with my manager over this. He's convinced that music did end the Vietnam War. He's convinced that music was part of the culture that ended the Vietnam War and that it was part of the message of the times. As a child in 1969 I remember thinking that these adults have it all figured out. Bob Dylan is our leader and Joan Baez is our leader and were going to end the war and there's not...I tend to write from a more personal point of view which I think in a sense is political. In fact I find that a lot of the songs have political readings to them in countries where, say Czechoslovakia for example a song like "Tired of Sleeping". I went to sing in Czechoslovakia in 1990 which was a year after the Revolution. I found that particular song had a tremendous ... Because they were reading it; they were perceiving it as a kind of political statement. So some of the songs, they don't deal with politics, but they deal with who's oppressed and who's not oppressed and who has power and who doesn't. So a lot of the songs are interpreted, correctly so, I think, as political statements. It's just, I'm not going to write about...I like Tracy Chapman but I could not sing "Talkin' About a Revolution" I couldn't sing it with a straight face. I couldn't sing it meaningfully.

Q: --

S: They did and the images made an impression on me. The man with his hand in a fist was a very popular one in the house that I lived in. But again, it wasn't something that I could believe in because I grew up and there were still wars going on. I remember thinking you couldn't wish for a better political leader if you were going to have one in music than Bob Dylan. He's someone I really admire and if I could write a political song, I'd like to write one like him. But I...there's something in me. I can't write jargon. I don't want to write that kind of political...I think it's good to write about the world you live in and about politics but I can't do it...

Q: I would think as an observer of your career that politics have certainly influenced how you run your career. You have a sensibility. You have a sense of freedom and self expression and control over your working career...

[TO BE CONTINUED]

Tape transcribed by Wendy Chapman

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