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From: 100232.712@compuserve.com (Julie Chan)
To: VegaNet@aol.com
Date: 96-02-17 00:27:18 EST
While waiting for Suzanne's new album, I would like to discuss her latest. In my opinion the album is all about sex and sexuality, encompassing their function, dysfunctions and deviations.
For example 99.9 F and Rock In This Pocket are about impotence. Suzanne's strength is her canny ability to juxtapose images and ideas. 99.9 F starts wittily "99.9 F degrees/ Stable now/ with rising possibilities"; While in Rock In This Pocket, the biblical language of "knowing" a person is used to convey the consummation of the sexual act. In both songs, one could feel the desperation of the characters trying to prove their sexual puissance.
In Liverpool is about sexual fantasies. The narrator is fantasizing about having sex with another person while doing it. It is imaginatively shrouded in the metaphor of the HUnchback of Notre Dame and the Boy in the Belfry. The listener is forced to use his or her imagination.
Bad Wisdom is about pedophilia and As Girls Go is about transsexual- ism. While homosexuality/bisexuality is dealt with in Fat Man & Dancing Girl.
Regards
Daedalus
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 20:43:55 +1300 (NZDT)
> From: 100232.712@compuserve.com (Julie Chan)
Interesting...
> The listener is forced to use his or her imagination.
In some cases, the listener doesn't need to be forced, it seems...
Tell me.. do you feel any anger towards your mother?
Uncle Sigmund
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
> > In my opinion the album is all about sex and sexuality,
Really. "Rock In this Pocket" is my least-favorite Suzanne
Vega song, since it's so obvious. Maybe if she hadn't included
(Song of David) as part of the title. I do like the double-
meaning of "turn your attention/my way."
From: "agnostic lobsters, tithing crabs"
> In Liverpool is about sexual fantasies. The narrator is fantasizing
[stuff about pedophilia, etc., deleted]
Similarly, the Queen and the Soldier is about an off-duty GI
wandering into a gay bar near the base, Marlene On the Wall is about
bondage (how the hell do you think she STAYS on the wall?), Straight
Lines is about pondering one's sexual orientation, and Undertow is
about ... well, that "swallow you whole" line speaks for itself!
No, not really.
While SV's songs are certainly open to various interpretations, and
there's certainly a sexual undertone to a lot of 99.9F, I don't buy a
lot of your readings of some of these songs. For instance, I think In
Liverpool is pretty clearly what she represents it as (especially in
the diary entry included as part of the 99.9F limited edition) --
reminiscing about an old boyfriend from Liverpool when she happens to
be in his city years later (the same one, in fact, that Gypsy is
about). I don't get from the song that she (the narrator) is "doing
it" during the song; if she can write in her diary at the same time
then she's either really bored or has more dexterity than humans are
commonly gifted with.
Also, she's never specified what Bad Wisdom is about. It could be
about pedophilia, but also about teen pregnancy, AIDS, general
turmoil of puberty, etc.
Could the song 99.9 be about impotence? Maybe, but I'd need to hear
more of an explanation of why you think so. I've always seen it as
about the moment when sexual tension is beginning to grow, with the
guy getting a bit flustered while Suzanne (or the narrator) kind of
sits back and coolly dissects his mood. (I have a few "artist"
friends who are constantly analyzing everything you do, say, think,
look, gesture, etc., which makes them kind of fun to be around but
can also make me a bit self conscious. Anyone else know what I mean?
This song kind of reminds me of that.)
Also, I'd like to hear why you think Fat Man & Dancing Girl is about
bisexuality. I've always imagined it to be about Suzanne and Mitchell
meeting in the studio (with SV, of course, being the girl with the
hand that's covering most of her mouth). It's a wonderful song that
I'd like to write about more fully sometime, but I especially love
the lines that really seem to encapsulate how Suzanne approaches her
songwriting:
Does she tell the truth?
The song has such a great show-biz, studio-trickery,
pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain feel to it. Also
some of the best (i.e., non-annoying) use of sampling I'm familiar
with.
Anyway, this isn't to try to shoot you down, just to say I don't buy
it. I'd at least like to hear more of an explanation, not just "this
song is about such and such." Otherwise we could spin theories about
why In The Eye is about O.J. Simpson, Book of Dreams is about Myst,
Luka is about Newt Gingrich, etc.
-- Bob
"Pleated draperies of gold brocade,
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:20:47 -0500 (EST)
I agree that there is a great deal of sexuality in 99.9. However, I don't
really think the album is about sex anymore than it's about experimenting
with industrial rock. I think the rhythms of the album and Suzanne's
voice make any sexual innuedo that much more potent. There's a sharpness
to her words when she's not even remotely approaching the subject of sex,
and I think that comes from her use of short words and phrases and hard
syllables. For this reason, I think, when she makes a reference which
could be interpreted as sexual, it sort of jumps out at you. ANd while I
really enjoy this quality of Suzanne's music, I think that it is not the
primary quality and should not be interpreted as the primary meaning of
her songs.
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:18:16 -0800 (PST)
On Sat, 17 Feb 1996 Julie Chan wrote:
> Bad Wisdom is about pedophilia and As Girls Go is about transsexual-
Wow, that is quite an overview of 99.9 While I agree that these elements
exist in these songs and I think that is certainly a door that we have
not gone through before--other than the transexualism of As Girls Go. I
have to disagree with the Bad Wisdom analysis. I don't think its about
pedophilia at all. I'd like to actually see the arguement for that. It
does however fit in with the rest of your overview of the album in that I
believe it is about AIDS or some other kind of disease that one can get
from unprotected sex. That is the Bad Wisdom in the song. I mean she
says: Mother you've taught me the laws are so fine/If I'm good then I
will be protected/I fallen through the crack/And there's no getting
back/I will pay for my life with my body. These lines I interpret as
being about how people are treated who have diseases like AIDS. One
mistake and they pay for their life w/ their bodies. Also, they reflect
the way the Reagan Admin. refused to acknowledge that AIDS existed.
If this song were about pedophilia I don't think there would be the tone
of sympathy for the narrator of the song. At least I hope not. This is
obviously someone who has made a mistake and now is outcast by society
because of ignorance.
I also remember Suzanne saying that it was particularly about AIDS, but
as an artist she feels she writes about the time she is living in. I
believe that what she meant is that it could be about anyone who suffers
from the ignorance of others and misinformation and also the tragedy of
contracting a terminal disease. But at the same time, AIDS is the most
prevelent thing on everyone's mind.
But, as I said before I'd love to hear the pedophelia arguement.
Wendy!
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:46:57 -0800 (PST)
On Sat, 17 Feb 1996, agnostic lobsters, tithing crabs wrote:
> Anyway, this isn't to try to shoot you down, just to say I don't buy
As I said before, I too would like to see the analysis. I'm a little
more curios than my pal Bob King as I do buy into "some" of the imagery.
I'd just like to see it explained.
That's what I love about this place. We can toss around theories, look
at the lyrics and comes up with new levels of meaning and new doors to
explore the music through.
I remember Suzanne even talking about "Ironbound/Fancy Poultry" one time
and this was a year or so after it was out and as she was talking she
came up w/ a new level of meaning to the song and surprised herself. I
think it's possible to see many things in Suzanne's music whether she
intended it to be there initially or not. I think she'd say the same.
Wendy!
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 12:51:16 -0800 (PST)
On Sat, 17 Feb 1996, jwarren wrote:
>
Well, sex may not be the primary issue--but it could be an issue of the
music that is fascinating to explore. While Suzanne is experimenting
with a new sound on 99.9 I don't think it is primarily about
experimenting with the new sound. Lots of things are happening there.
Wendy!
To: undertow@serv1.law.emory.edu
> Mother you've taught me the laws are so fine/If I'm good then I
I interpret the above lyrics as having to do with the poor girls who get
sold into prostitution in Thailand. I've seen documentaries on this, and
read about it most recently in National Geographic.
To: undertow@law.emory.edu
(excuse me for my bad English, I'm French)
WOW WOW WOW!
I mean journalists ask her: "What do you mean by Small Blue Thing, and by
Undertow ?"
And she says "well I really wondered what it would feel to be an Undertow,
a Small Blue Thing"
Or they ask:"Why do you mean by Institution Green? Is this the green of the
dollars, is this about Greenpeace ?"
And she casually answers: "Well no, I went to vote and all the walls and
curtains and everything was green"
And so on.
So I Like to trust my first feelings and for me Bad Wisdom is just about being
a teenager (remember), when you start to get wise and you feel that your
friends don't. And you lose illusions so you fall through the crack and there's
no getting back. and you feel so miserable you wish you weren't so wise...
Another example is Blood Makes Noise. I have no idea of what it's really
about but I like to think it's about feeling too real (kind of the opposite of in
As a Child). Have you never felt like this? When you hurt yourself or when
you see yourself getting old (and I'm only 20) ?
Or in Straight Lines: I found out in one of the interviews on the web that, as a
teen, she went in her room and cut her hair in straight lines!
I think this is the humor in Suzanne's art. It's not in the songs themselves
but in what people will do of them. Like in Luka: she's in Luka's shoes, but
luka puts himself in the shoes of the person downstairs. So everybody ask
her: "Did you know a Luka?", whereas they should ask:"Were YOU a Luka?"
God she's so great!
This is the poetry of simple things. Look around you, there is poetry in
absolutely everything. This is what she writes about, and I think Brian Rose is
kind of an excuse for Tom's Diner, I think this song describes her whole work.
Well I repeat this is only my opinion, and you may disagree.
Anyway if she ever says what such song is about, I will keep my first
interpretation of it, because when I hear a song, I see movies in my head,
movies guided by the words and not always the real meaning of the song,
and this movie sticks in my head forever.
Bye. David.
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 20:31:45 -0500
>>various comments snipped<<
Bravo, David! At least someone here agrees with me that the lyrics usually
speak for themselves.
You wrote:
To which I would add only one thing, which every woman on this list will back
me up on: Anytime a female drastically changes her hairstyle, it is
indicative of a fairly drastic change in attitude!
Later,
U212
To: 101524.2775@compuserve.com
> This is the poetry of simple things. Look around you, there is poetry in
David, you've said it all! Really, I think you have, with this one
message, struck right to the heart of what Suzanne's work is all
about, and in a very direct, Vega-like fashion. You may have written
the last paragraph anyone has to write on this topic.
I almost feel like we should retire the list right now -- just stop
spinning our theories, shut the whole thing down and go out and
spread the Word.
At the very least, your "poetry of simple things" line should be
quoted in every article written about Suzanne henceforth. (I'm
reminded of a line from another gifted poet/songwriter, Cindy
Wheeler: "This is the volatile stuff that comes from something
small." She was referring to birdshit _and_ poetry.)
Thank you.
-- Bob, feeling quite inadequate at the moment
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:49:05 -0800 (PST)
On Sun, 18 Feb 1996 Unique212@aol.com wrote:
> To which I would add only one thing, which every woman on this list will back
Literarily haircutting has always been symbolic of change.
Wendy!
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:46:00 -0800 (PST)
On Sun, 18 Feb 1996 101524.2775@compuserve.com wrote:
> This is the poetry of simple things. Look around you, there is poetry in
I was listening to Suzanne's "Learning Annex" talk yesterday, and she was
saying that she wrote about things that are local rather than starting
from larger topics such as: justice or love. Like, w/ Small Blue Thing,
she said she had a thought, "I feel like a Small Blue Thing" and then
thought, "What a funny thought" and then she started thinking what a
small blue thing felt like and so on and that's where the song came
from. I think w/ a song like small blue thing, it's left really open for
interpretation.
Bad Wisdom is also capable of having lots of interpretations, but I think
I don't necessarily agree that it is just about the woes of being a
teenager. One must really pay attemtion to the title: "Bad Wisdom" and
also some of the lyrics: "I will pay for my life w/ my body" in order to
realize that there is something tragic in the song. Like incest,
prostetution, terminal illness (AIDS) or even teen pregnancy, or even
drug addiction--perhaps of a teenager--perhaps of anyone. I guess it
really doesn't matter what "general" area the song covers--what
matters--and this is what makes Suzanne a minimalist in some ways--is the
feeling. There is something tragic going on in this song because of a
moment of "Bad Wisdom" and now perhaps the narrator view her/his life as
being in jeopardy or over.
Wendy!
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 08:37:08 -0800 (PST)
On Sun, 18 Feb 1996, Ted Matsumura wrote:
> re:
Wow, that's interesting. I never really thought of the prostitution
angle. That could be prostitution in America too--especially like teen
prostitution and runaways. In that case, there might be some connection
to Neighborhood Girls.
That's what's great about Suzanne's music. It leaves interpretation up
for grabs.
VegaNet@aol.com
From: Paul LeBeau
To: Suzanne Vega List
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
>
> In my opinion the album is all about sex and sexuality,
> [...]
> For example 99.9 F and Rock In This Pocket are about impotence.
> [..]
To: paul@caverock.co.nz (Paul LeBeau)
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 02:56:03 -0500 (EST)
> > [...]
> > For example 99.9 F and Rock In This Pocket are about impotence.
> > [..]
>
> Interesting...
To: VegaNet@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 09:46:34 +0000
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
> about having sex with another person while doing it. It is imaginatively
> shrouded in the metaphor of the HUnchback of Notre Dame and the Boy in the
> Belfry.
Does she hide the lie?
Does she say it so no one can know?
and flowers by the bed.
A writing desk for writing.
A Bible never read.
I've waited here since '92,
a monument of faith.
A plush red lounge for lounging,
but now it's plain too late."
-- The Great Big New Ones, "Bel Air Palms Motel"
From: jwarren
To: Undertow
Subject: Sexuality in 99.9
From: Wendy Chapman
To: VegaNet@aol.com
Cc: undertow@law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
> ism. While homosexuality/bisexuality is dealt with in Fat Man & Dancing
> Girl.
From: Wendy Chapman
To: "agnostic lobsters, tithing crabs"
Cc: VegaNet@aol.com, undertow@law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
> it. I'd at least like to hear more of an explanation, not just "this
> song is about such and such." Otherwise we could spin theories about
> why In The Eye is about O.J. Simpson, Book of Dreams is about Myst,
> Luka is about Newt Gingrich, etc.
From: Wendy Chapman
Subject: Re: Sexuality in 99.9
> I agree that there is a great deal of sexuality in 99.9. However, I don't
> really think the album is about sex anymore than it's about experimenting
> with industrial rock. I think the rhythms of the album and Suzanne's
> voice make any sexual innuedo that much more potent. There's a sharpness
> to her words when she's not even remotely approaching the subject of sex,
> and I think that comes from her use of short words and phrases and hard
> syllables. For this reason, I think, when she makes a reference which
> could be interpreted as sexual, it sort of jumps out at you. ANd while I
> really enjoy this quality of Suzanne's music, I think that it is not the
> primary quality and should not be interpreted as the primary meaning of
> her songs.
>
From: tedm@shrine.cyber.ad.jp (Ted Matsumura)
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
> will be protected/I fallen through the crack/And there's no getting
> back/I will pay for my life with my body. These lines I interpret as
Subject: Suz's art
Where are you guys going to ?
pedophilia, incest, prostitution,...?
Well maybe you're right.
My opinion on Suzanne's songs is that she usually writes obvious songs and
waits for people's ideas of what it's about (though she probably knows, while
writing a song, what other meanings it could seem to have).
From: Unique212@aol.com
To: undertow@law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Suz's art
>>Or in Straight Lines: I found out in one of the interviews on the web that,
as a teen, she went in her room and cut her hair in straight lines!>>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 01:28:49 +0000
Subject: Re: Suz's art
Cc: undertow@law.emory.edu
> absolutely everything. This is what she writes about, and I think Brian Rose is
> kind of an excuse for Tom's Diner, I think this song describes her whole work.
From: Wendy Chapman
Cc: undertow@law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Suz's art
> me up on: Anytime a female drastically changes her hairstyle, it is
> indicative of a fairly drastic change in attitude!
From: Wendy Chapman
Cc: undertow@law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Suz's art
> absolutely everything. This is what she writes about, and I think Brian Rose is
> kind of an excuse for Tom's Diner, I think this song describes her whole work.
From: Wendy Chapman
To: Ted Matsumura
Cc: undertow@serv1.law.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: 99.9 F album
>
> > Mother you've taught me the laws are so fine/If I'm good then I
> > will be protected/I fallen through the crack/And there's no getting
> > back/I will pay for my life with my body. These lines I interpret as
>
> I interpret the above lyrics as having to do with the poor girls who get
> sold into prostitution in Thailand. I've seen documentaries on this, and
> read about it most recently in National Geographic.
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