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Subj: sheet music From: Ahree Lee (alee@sci.mus.mn.us) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:00:37 -0600 Susan McNamara wrote: Does anyone know if there will be a sheet music book published for Nine Objects of Desire, or if there are any for the other albums? I only own Solitude Standing. - - - - - - There's a great book of guitar tablature music by Cherry Lane Music (? Cherry Orchard? Help me out here, folks!) that is very authentic. I have it and love it. The songs are from the first two albums, and to my knowledge, that's about all the sheet music there is. There may be sheet music for individual songs, but I don't usually check for those so I wouldn't know. (Except for Solitude Standing, which I also own. :-) ) If anyone knows otherwise, I'd love to know, too! - Ahree Subj: Re: sheet music; Days controversy; NYC record shops report From: Unique212@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:31:01 -0400 Hi there folks, There is sheet music for Solitude Standing, Days of open Hand, and 99.9Fo. The first two are published by Cherry Lane Music, and there is a link over to Cherry Lane on the Website. (If you don't live in the USA, it may be cheaper to order it directly from Cherry Lane than to try at your local music store. If you do live in the USA, it may still be simpler to order from Cherry Lane than to find it locally.) Cherry Lane also publishes "The Authentic Guitar Style of Suzanne Vega", a book which has tablature for several songs from the first two albums and is superb, as well as completely accurate (with only one or two slight exceptions). That's the one Ahree was talking about. The 99.9Fo book is published by WB Music, and while the piano parts seem to be decent enough, the guitar parts are not particularly enlightening. The voicings of the chords are often incorrect ("yeah, so we know it's a C chord, but WHICH ONE IS IT?!!") There aren't even capo indications. As for Nine Objects, I have no idea whether there will be a book. I really hope they publish one! If there is, could the powers that be PLEASE take enough care to make sure that it is of some use to guitar players? That is, give capo indications ("capo at second fret") and make sure that the voicings are accurately spelled out! If anyone is listening, thanks in advance. I've been reading the stuff about Days and 99.9 and frankly I'm baffled. Can't an artist change styles when it suits the song and the intention of the material? It took me a few listenings to "get" Days, but when I think about it, many of the songs on Days are the ones that pop up unbidden in my mind while strolling around. And 99.9 is a work of genius. Don't allow the 'style' to throw you. What other sort of music could really capture the feeling of blood making noise in one's head? And shouldn't a battle sound clangy ("Rock in this Pocket")? Oh yeah, the promised NYC record shops report: Nine Objects is the CD of the Week at HMV, on sale for $11.99. It is Number 23 on Tower's Top 25. (Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs is Number 21, for those who care about such things.) The November Pulse! magazine has an interesting article about SV and Mitchell Froom, and some photographs that appear to have been taken at a festival over the summer (Newport perhaps? One has a sign saying Dressing Room 4 -- Martin Sexton, Suzanne Vega.) Later, U212 Subj: Re: sheet music; Days controversy; NYC record shops report From: Yaman (yaman@sensor.com) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:30:58 -0400 > As for Nine Objects, I have no idea whether there will be a book. I really > hope they publish one! If there is, could the powers that be PLEASE take > enough care to make sure that it is of some use to guitar players? That is, > give capo indications ("capo at second fret") and make sure that the voicings > are accurately spelled out! Would you like milk and cookies with that? What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? Yaman Subj: Re: sheet music; Days controversy; NYC record shops report From: Dan Boger (dboger@bgumail.bgu.ac.il) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 22:34:51 +0200 (IST) On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Yaman wrote: > > > As for Nine Objects, I have no idea whether there will be a book. I really > > hope they publish one! If there is, could the powers that be PLEASE take > > enough care to make sure that it is of some use to guitar players? That is, > > give capo indications ("capo at second fret") and make sure that the voicings > > are accurately spelled out! > > Would you like milk and cookies with that? > > What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is > read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's > playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why > don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? Well, I for one, am not good enough to play guitar from a piano sheet. I've tried that, but it just doesn't sound right. So a good guitar tab will be a good idea for the likes of me... Dan Subj: sheet music From: David Algranti (algranti@club-internet.fr) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 02:31:13 +0200 (MET DST) There's another songbook, called "the Suzanne Vega Songbook" with piano/vocal/chords arrangements for songs from the first two albums, plus Left Of Center. The arrangements are very different from the Solitude Standing songbook. And sorry folks, I believe it's an only European edition. David. Subj: Re: sheet music From: Unique212@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:24:29 -0400 In a message dated 96-10-25 09:37:41 EDT, you write: <<> As for Nine Objects, I have no idea whether there will be a book. I really > hope they publish one! If there is, could the powers that be PLEASE take > enough care to make sure that it is of some use to guitar players? That is, > give capo indications ("capo at second fret") and make sure that the voicings > are accurately spelled out! Would you like milk and cookies with that? What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? Yaman>> Hi there -- This is directed at me personally, so I will respond accordingly. For the record, I am a quite accomplished guitar player, and no I'm not blowing my own horn, I'm stating a fact. I enjoy trying out guitars at music stores and watching the headbangers' jaws drop -- "a chick is playing like that?!!" go the balloons over their heads. Why is it that guitarists have to get all huffy about their ability to swipe notes off a recording, while such skills are not considered essential for players of any other instruments? Could it be that they are masking their inability to read music? A keyboard player would not settle for a score that says in effect "play an A minor, wherever you like." Why should a guitarist put up with this inaccuracy and be made to feel they are more macho for it? Or, more to the point, why do some guitarists think that those who use accurate music scores are wusses? U212 who freely admits to not being macho! Subj: Re: sheet music From: Yaman (yaman@sensor.com) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:41:02 -0400 > Why is it that guitarists have to get all huffy about their ability to swipe > notes off a recording, while such skills are not considered essential for > players of any other instruments? What was being criticized was not the idea of relying on sheet music. It was the idea of insisting that any regular sheet music will not suffice for a guitar player. Swiping notes off a recording is obviously sometimes a waste of time and it was not praised. I use sheet music whenever I can. Yaman Subj: Re: Guitar Chords From: Susan McNamara (sem8@cornell.edu) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:21:22 -0400 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Next message: rossc@slf.org: "Re: Days (was Re: Atlanta show, ramblings)" Previous message: FJardin@aol.com: "REMOVE" Next in thread: Yaman: "Re: Guitar Chords" Yaman said: >Would you like milk and cookies with that? > >What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is >read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's >playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why >don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? > >Yaman As a guitarist whose spent many hours tabbing Joni Mitchell open tuned puzzles, I really appreciate the fact that there are songbooks that tab guitar styles accurately. Especially for someone who is innovative like Suzanne or Joni, it is the closest you can get to studying with a teacher. You can then develop your own style. I find nothing more annoying than getting a watered down version of a complex song that is transcribed as G D C. I agree with Unique212 on this one . Sue Re: Guitar Chords Yaman (yaman@sensor.com) Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:57:11 -0400 One reply to > >What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is > >read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's > >playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why > >don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? > > > >Yaman was as follows: > As a guitarist whose spent many hours tabbing Joni Mitchell open tuned > puzzles, I really appreciate the fact that there are songbooks that tab > guitar styles accurately. Especially for someone who is innovative like > Suzanne or Joni, it is the closest you can get to studying with a teacher. > You can then develop your own style. I find nothing more annoying than > getting a watered down version of a complex song that is transcribed as G D > C. I agree with Unique212 on this one. The point is not that perfectly accurate tabs of songs of this type are not useful; it is rather that "asking" for perfect tabs and complaining about non-perfect ones, if they luckily exist, is not going to get a guitar player anywhere. I know players who are dying to play certain guitar-based songs, but roll their eyes when handed the piano tab versions. They complain 5 years later that they should have taken the time to devise their version from these piano tabs and shared it with others during open mics, etc. I suppose everyone has different levels of attachment to perfection. The point is "personal effort", or rather the lack of it. Yaman Subj: Guitar tabs From: Dave Short (curiousg@tezcat.com) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 11:33:48 -0500 At 09:30 AM 10/25/96 -0400, you wrote: > >> As for Nine Objects, I have no idea whether there will be a book. I really >> hope they publish one! If there is, could the powers that be PLEASE take >> enough care to make sure that it is of some use to guitar players? That is, >> give capo indications ("capo at second fret") and make sure that the voicings >> are accurately spelled out! > >Would you like milk and cookies with that? > >What is left to you as a guitar player if all you will do is >read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's >playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why >don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? > >Yaman For those who are accomplished guitarists, this may be feasible. However, most of us who are attempting to teach ourselves guitar on our own don't yet have the vocabulary with which to interpret songs accurately. Most songbooks have the chords and capo-ing, but that only gets you started. Trying to make it *sound* right is where the learning comes in -- strumming pattern, hammer-ons, pull-offs, harmonics, thumps, bends. Even with tablature, it's just a starting place. I agree that figuring out as much as you can on your own is the best way to learn, but ya gotta start somewhere, and it's certainly a big help if what you're learning from is accurate. Throw alternate tunings in like Suzanne, Shawn, Joni Mitchell, etc use and it's overwhelming. Like Joni says, it's like trying to learn how to type and all the keys keep moving around! BTW, I don't think your sarcasm was really called for considering a simple request that published guitar tab simply be *accurate* for the paying consumer... Curiousg This world is a blessing and beast, every day. ~ Shawn Colvin Subj: Re: Guitar tabs From: L. Widmer (lwidmer@u.washington.edu) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Just wanted to chime in here. I too prefer tab guitar books. I'm not a guitar whiz. But when I started playing guitar, I was able to play a few of Suzanne's songs by using SVs authentic tab book. This actually made learning to play a lot more fun instead of just playing little baby beginner songs. If I had the skill to figure it all out, it wouldn't be such a bad thing, but I would spend hours and hours of frustration to little avail, I'm afraid. That's great for those who can figure it out, though. Also, On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, Dave Short wrote: > Throw alternate tunings in like Suzanne, Shawn, Joni Mitchell, etc use and > it's overwhelming. Like Joni says, it's like trying to learn how to type > and all the keys keep moving around! As far as I know SV doesn't use any alternative tunings. What songs does she do w/ alternative tunings, anyone? I have 2nd row seats for Suzanne in Seattle on Nov 14. Can't wait! Suzanne, if you're reading, would you consider playing "Song of Sand" at the Seattle show?? Just a little plug :) I'm a little bummed because the Lemonheads will be here the same night. Oh well, I guess I'll have to see Evan some other time. Lory Subj: Re: Guitar tabs From: Yaman (yaman@sensor.com) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:16:54 -0400 One other reply to > >read a perfect tab and produce an identical copy of Suzanne's > >playing? If you are so enthusiastic to play these songs, why > >don't you sit down and figure them out yourself in your own way? > > > >Yaman was as follows: > For those who are accomplished guitarists, this may be feasible. Following a non-perfect guitar tab or a piano tab, and by using it as a guide to devise your own method or to try to figure out the way Suzanne Vega plays the song, is not a task that requires a guitar player to be accomplished. What is being asked in the very first message of this thread is to be handed the way the song "is" played. I don't think the issue here is how "good" a guitar player needs to be, but rather how "unimaginative", "lazy", and "boring" he/she shouldn't be. > you can on your own is the best way to learn, but ya gotta start somewhere, Hmm, then that somewhere must be the perfect tablature...OK... Yaman Subj: Sheet music & Favorites. From: Albert J. Horst (albert@teracorp.com) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:15:40 -0400 (EDT) From seeing Suzanne in concerts and on video, it is obvious that she does not always play her songs the same way they are presented in the Cherry Lane music books. Two examples are Marlene on the Wall and Queen and the Soldier - which I've seen her play fairly high on the fret board, yet with the capo still on the 2nd position. As for favorite albums, I feel all of Suzanne Vega's albums have something to offer and should not be criticized in black and white terms. I like to use percentages myself. Suzanne Vega: 100% Solitude Standing: 100% Days of Open Hand: 100% 99.9: 80% 9OOD: 60% Yes, the trend of "my opinion" looks ominous, but it does not imply that I like her any less! I do think her older fans, like me, tend to view her latest work from a different and common perspective than many newer fans. Maybe I'm just nostalgic. Albert. Subj: RE: Sheet music From: Joey Shoji (joey@creative.net) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:58:34 -0000 About sheet music/tab: Sue M. wrote: > You can then develop your own style. I find nothing more annoying than > getting a watered down version of a complex song that is transcribed as G D > C. . . . Me, too!!! Getting the right versions of various songs in the past has certainly made me stretch guitar-wise while keeping me interested. David A. wrote: > There's another songbook, called "the Suzanne Vega Songbook" with > piano/vocal/chords arrangements for songs from the first two albums, plus > Left Of Center. The arrangements are very different from the Solitude > Standing songbook. And sorry folks, I believe it's an only European edition. After having gotten the other songbooks mentioned I was pleased to have picked up this one you indicate in early '95 when I was in England. Unfortunately, the sheet music for "Marlene On The Wall" was yucky. The chords didn't seem right and the piano part was just weird (though I admit I'm much worse on piano). When I mentioned this here someone (thank you!) posted another tab version. I tried it out and it seemed closer, but still not right. Oh, well. I'll keep trying. I attempted to chart the chord/finger positions the last concert here in San Francisco, but I kept getting interrupted by a woman who kept pestering me, asking what I was writing (I _did_ tell her!). The Japanese laserdisc didn't have enough close-ups for me, but I'm just a so-so guitarist. Albert H. wrote: > From seeing Suzanne in concerts and on video, it is > obvious that she does not always play her songs the same > way they are presented in the Cherry Lane music books. > Two examples are Marlene on the Wall and Queen and the > Soldier - which I've seen her play fairly high on the > fret board, yet with the capo still on the 2nd position. That's my observation, too, though the Q & S version in the "Authentic Styles . . ." tab book, my favorite of the publications, seems fairly accurate. Joey Subj: WBC tab/crds From: Erik Pischel (pischel@informatik.hu-berlin.de) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:50:14 +0100 Hi gang, since "World before Columbus" is such a beautiful song, has any of you worked out the Tab and/or chords for this song? If yes, please send it, if not - here is what I think about it. I'm still quite new to figureing out tabs and chords of songs, so if something's wrong: don't flame me toooo hard ;-) However, the intro is a picked Em7 chord: (somewhat simplified) e------------------0----- b------3---------3------- g--------4-----4--------- D----2-------2----------- A------------------------ E-0-------(0)------------ I'm not quite sure about the root notes in the verse: E G?? B e?? The chords in the chorus (played by keyboard/piano) are IMHO: ||:G Bm |Em Bm :|| 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + Any suggestions, corrections + more stuff from 9OoD? Take care, -- Erik Pischel *** Berlin, Germany *** community service at a hospital for more info see my room page at http://www.informatik.hu-berlin.de/~pischel "I'd like to meet you in a timeless placeless place somewhere out of context and beyond all consequences." language, suzanne vega Subj: Re: WBC tab/crds From: Louis-Philippe de l'Etoile (louisp@Mlink.NET) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:10:52 -0500 : However, the intro is a picked Em7 chord: : (somewhat simplified) : : e------------------0----- : b------3---------3------- : g--------4-----4--------- : D----2-------2----------- : A------------------------ : E-0-------(0)------------ I'm not sure I'm right, but I think that will sound better. e----------------------------0- b---------3---------------3---- g------0---4-0----0---4------ D----2-----------2--2--------- A------------------------------- E-0---------------------------- Subj: Re: WBC tab/crds From: Unique212@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:24:11 -0500 Hi there You're right about the intro chord being an Em7, but it's not where you think it is. In the video clip from the Paris interview, and in concert, the chord SV plays is: 0 - 12 -12 - 0 - 0 - 0 which is the Em formation placed at the twelfth fret. The chords at the first part of the verse are: If your love were taken from me 0-12-12-0-0-0 8 - 10 -10 - 9- 0- 0 7 - 9 - 9 -0 - 0 - 0 8-10-10- 9-0-0 Every color would be black and white 0-12-12-0-0-0 8-10-10-9-0-0 7-9-9-0-0-0 8-10-10-9-0-0 etc. The 8-10-10-9-0-0- chord may actually be 8-10-10-0-0-0- instead, I can't really tell. I think the chords for the chorus are down around the first position. Thanks for the picking patterns -- I wasn't sure how to do it! U212 Subj: Re: WBC tab/crds Date: 96-11-26 08:00:00 EST From: louisp@Mlink.NET (Louis-Philippe de l'Etoile) : Here are the chords on 'The queen and the soldier' : Am F C Cb G : Am F C Cb : F C D D7 ( I think) Hi! I got the tabs on the OLGA. so here it is... Am Am Fsus9(x-x-3-0-1-3) Fsus9 Csus9(x-3-2-0-1-3) Gsus4/B (x-2-x-0-1-3) Csus9 G Am Am Fsus9 Fsus9 Csus9 Gsus4/B Csus9 Csus9 Play it one time for the intro, then two other times. Then, when you come to: "Down the long narrow hall he was led..." Fsus9 Fsus9 C/E(x-x-2-0-1-3) C/E D7sus4(x-x-0-2-1-3) D7sus4 D7 Dm7 Am Am Fsus9 Fsus9 Csus9 Gsus4/B Csus9 Csus9 Csus9 Csus9 You can now start over, except for the intro. Louis-Philippe Subj: learning SV songs on the guitar Date: 96-11-25 17:18:22 EST From: kanderso@wheatonma.edu (Kirk Anderson) Been playing guitar a long time now, but obviously I still had a lot to learn. It's only recently that I've understood that, for instance, a capo is not just for people with a weak first finger. Since I usually play electric, the value of favoring open strings eluded me for years. Now I'm playing either my acoustic or my Rickenbacker most of the time--real motivation to take a different approach. Thanks to some fine transcription work, you can do spot-on renditions of some Suzanne Vega songs, once you wrap your fingers around a few new chords. (There's tablature etc. at the site mentioned by a recent posting.) I've only worked on a few songs, but that was enough to learn a lot, and I think I understand now what gives so much of SV's music that particular 'open' quality. Here goes... Unlike trad folk players (and rock/blues players, barring the occasional Roger McGuinn or Peter Buck), SV avoids playing chords 'straight' (C, G7, Am....) The recent posting on "World Before Columbus" is a perfect example: that open, airy quality is achieved by combining open strings with fretted patterns which move up and down the neck. Suspended fourths and seconds are everywhere ("Luka" moves mostly between Bsus4 and Asus2, capoed up 2 frets). "The Queen and the Soldier" and "Small Blue Thing" as transcribed at the ftp site sound *great*, and it was while playing them that I realized there's a method here. I had never really played chords above the fourth fret, unless they were barre chords. But I'll bet you acoustic types are saying 'duh!' by now.... Vega, btw, is a fine guitarist. Does she usually use fingerpicks? My first visual impression of her was from a photo with that gorgeous Guild jumbo, probably "Luka" -era. Very provocative, in a world of dreadnaughts. kirk Subj: Re: learning SV songs on the guitar Date: 96-11-25 17:43:26 EST From: Unique212@aol.com Nope -- she uses a thumbpick and bare fingers (with some nail) for fingerpicking, flatpick for strumming. This is based on observation at several concerts. She also uses a lot of chords that have no thirds at all, thus they are neither major nor minor. Many songs on the first album have such chords -- examples are Some Journey and Small Blue Thing. Glad to hear you got over your capo prejudice -- without them, many styles of playing would be simply impossible! I bet that Ricky really rings now. She now plays small-bodied Taylors in concert, I think the 514 or 512 model (mahogany and cedar or spruce), and used to play small-bodied Yamaha electric/acoustics in recent shows. The Taylors sound better. U212 In a message dated 96-11-25 17:18:22 EST, you write: << Vega, btw, is a fine guitarist. Does she usually use fingerpicks? My first visual impression of her was from a photo with that gorgeous Guild jumbo, probably "Luka" -era. Very provocative, in a world of dreadnaughts. kirk >> Subj: Re: learning SV songs on the guitar Date: 96-11-26 08:19:03 EST From: louisp@Mlink.NET (Louis-Philippe de l'Etoile) I must agree with you. I've been playing acoustic guitar for one year now, by learning the thing by myself. I first played songs I found on the internet, then (three months ago) I discovered Suzanne Vega. Since then, I have difficulties playing the old I've learn before. LIke you said, her music is rich and has unusual chords that sound great! You mentionned Luka. I luckily discovered the chords when I was playing around with my guitar (these are also power chords). And I never thought someone would dare to use them throughout a song (except for the E). As for the capo, I think it's usefull when you want to higher your voice. Of course she uses fingerpicking! When she don't, it's mostly because she's playing "Marlene on the Wall" and "Rock in this Pocket". Or maybe she is not playing guitar on a song. I've started to take some guitar courses. My teacher is quite impress with the fact that I want to learn everything about chord contruction and combinations. I just want to learn it all to be able to make a sound as beautifull as Suzanne. It's a her show that I discovered acoustic guitar for the second time in my life. Since then, I fell in love with it! : Unlike trad folk players (and rock/blues players, barring : the occasional Roger McGuinn or Peter Buck), SV avoids : playing chords 'straight' (C, G7, Am....) : The recent posting on "World Before Columbus" is a perfect example: that : open, airy quality is achieved by combining : open strings with fretted patterns which move up : and down the neck. Suspended fourths and seconds are : everywhere ("Luka" moves mostly between Bsus4 and : Asus2, capoed up 2 frets). "The Queen and the Soldier" and : "Small Blue Thing" as transcribed at the ftp site sound : *great*, and it was while playing them that I realized : there's a method here. I had never really played chords : above the fourth fret, unless they were barre chords. : But I'll bet you acoustic types are saying 'duh!' by now.... Subj: The Guitar Part in 50/50 Chance Date: 96-12-10 19:23:52 EST From: Unique212@aol.com Hi folks, A while back someone (David A, perhaps?) asked about the guitar line in 50/50 Chance. If I remember correctly (from seeing SV perform it solo acoustic) she is either playing the lowest three strings of the guitar all together on every eighth note (a sort of choppy, staccato effect) or playing the same three string in a very up-and-down pattern, like so, with one note per each eighth note: (String numbers) 6-5-4-5-6-5-4-5{new measure}-6-5-4-5-6-5-4-5 etc. The chords are, according to the songbook for Days: Verse: Bm (2-2-0-x-x-x) Bmadd4 (0-2-0-x-x-x) Gsus2 (3-0-0-x-x-x) G (3-2-0-x-x-x) Chorus: Csus4 (x-3-3-0-x-x-) Em (x-2-2-0-x-x-) Eb (x-1-1-0-x-x-) Eb(b5) (x-0-1-0-x-x-) Interestingly enough, this type of three-string chord which just contains the essential defining elements of the chord is called a "power chord" when played at top volume by a heavy-metal guitarist! U212 Subj: Re: The Guitar Part in 50/50 Chance Date: 96-12-11 08:40:49 EST From: 4dm@qlink.queensu.ca (Magenta) On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 Unique212@aol.com wrote: > Interestingly enough, this type of three-string chord which just contains the > essential defining elements of the chord is called a "power chord" when > played at top volume by a heavy-metal guitarist! P.J. Harvey makes heavy use of this type of chord as well. The result is a very 'dirty', rough effect, going more for rhythm instead of melody or harmony. Metallica's famous "chucka-chucka" riffs and most Nina Gordon-penned Veruca Salt songs use these a lot as well for a punky sound. I.D. ............................................ . . . "My hands are tied behind my back . . My eyes are blind, I've lost track . . And I can't have . . What I want bad" . . - "Hands Are Tied", Taste Of Joy . . . Subj: Suzanne Vega's chords Date: 96-12-11 13:34:20 EST From: Bruce_Miyashita@mckinsey.com (Bruce Miyashita) Dear U212 (you're right, it does sound radioactive :-)) I am basically a Neanderthal when it comes to playing the acoustic guitar--my approach is to just bash away on it. Thus it was fascinating to read your analyses of Suzanne's guitar technique, e.g., your post of 12/10/96 on Suzanne's use of a "three-string power chord" on 50/50 Chance or your post of 11/25/96: She also uses a lot of chords that have no thirds at all, thus they are neither major nor minor. Many songs on the first album have such chords -- examples are Some Journey and Small Blue Thing. Would you or anyone else on the Undertow know what other composers might also frequently use these types of chord structures in their work? Or is Suzanne unique? Does one have to look outside the world of rock/pop to find these kinds of chords being used e.g. classical or jazz? Any thoughts on whether one can hear an evolution in the types of chords Suzanne uses? Many of Suzanne's songs seem to set up a interesting pattern of presenting, but not always resolving either musically (as with the chords that are neither major nor minor) nor lyrically, the subject at hand, of leaving some things hanging, of not committing to a definitive answer much less a "Hollywood" ending where all the loose ends of the song are tied-up. I wonder if Suzanne's preference for songs without "resolution" lyrically and musically (which is perhaps the biggest attraction her songs have for me) is also the reason why, according to Suzanne, she finds it difficult to write political or love songs. Both types of songs, almost by definition, typically force the writer to declare commitment to a political ideology or to an object of love, to make a statement. In both cases, the person in their commitment to the political cause or to their love, is in a position of almost unconditional acceptance, often to the point of being uncritical, of being "head over heels," of giving oneself over to the other, and of being open (and vulnerable) to dissappointment. Suzanne's music has never seemed to me to be music that was uncritical. It some ways, her music might be described as music for the cautious, or for people who are cynics with a soft spot. (Cynics, after all, are the true believers who've been disappointed a few too many times). Regards, Bruce. Subj: Re: Suzanne Vega's chords Date: 96-12-11 17:07:26 EST From: kanderso@wheatonma.edu (Kirk Anderson) Bruce Miyashita wrote: >She also uses a lot of chords that have no thirds at all, thus they are >neither major nor minor. Many songs on the first album have such chords -- >examples are Some Journey and Small Blue Thing. > >Would you or anyone else on the Undertow know what other composers might also >frequently use these types of chord structures in their work? Or is Suzanne >unique? Does one have to look outside the world of rock/pop to find these >kinds >of chords being used e.g. classical or jazz? There are a lot of suspensions in Beatles, Byrds, Who, Rolling Stones. But I think they always get resolved (to major) and that's what makes Suzanne Vega's praxis different. The way that she plays them, using both open strings and fretted notes halfway up the neck at the same time, also adds to the effect. I would not say she's the only artist who does this, just because I don't listen to a lot of acoustic music. But check out Joni Mitchell and David Crosby, maybe. >I wonder if Suzanne's preference for songs without "resolution" lyrically and >musically (which is perhaps the biggest attraction her songs have for me) is >also the reason why, according to Suzanne, she finds it difficult to write >political or love songs. I won't comment on the love songs part, but successful political songs are as rare as hen's teeth and I think Suzanne Vega is one of many many many artists who'd like to address political questions but recognize that it's usually just not possible to pull it off. There are some artists who don't realize it, and write political songs that make you cringe when you hear them. And a very few who are occasionally up to the feat. Joe Jackson has succeeded here and there; Elvis Costello's "Shipbuilding" (which he only co-wrote) might be an example. Bob Dylan called them "finger-pointing" songs, and it's the best description there is. He wrote a few good ones himself. Sam Phillips explores terrain that might be considered 'political', and wonderfully. But the more specific it gets, the greater the chances for failure --and that's where Bruce's remark about 'resolution' comes in. --kirk Subj: Re: Suzanne Vega's chords Date: 96-12-11 17:50:13 EST From: rwalters@lafayette.unocal.com (Rob Walters) Hello everyone, Bruce wrote: >I wonder if Suzanne's preference for songs without "resolution" lyrically and >musically (which is perhaps the biggest attraction her songs have for me) is >also the reason why, according to Suzanne, she finds it difficult to write >political or love songs. Both types of songs, almost by definition, typically >force the writer to declare commitment to a political ideology or to an object >of love, to make a statement. Good observations. Songs that deal with mental health, relationships of the individual to society, alienation, or that comment on and observe some aspect of urban life *can* have some 'resolution,' if they're forced to. *But* what makes Suzanne's writing so unique is that she knows there is rarely a simple solution to any of these situations. Think about how much *less* effective songs like "Luka" or "Cracking" or "Bad Wisdom" would be if they included a nice wrap-up of the particular individual's ultimate fate. I think she's commented on writing love songs to the effect that "Yes, I could write something like 'Baby, I love you so much,' but it's been done before." She finds other ways to express these sentiments. >Suzanne's music has never seemed to me to be music that was uncritical. It some >ways, her music might be described as music for the cautious, or for people who >are cynics with a soft spot. I'm not sure if I'd put it that way ("the cautious"). The characters in most of her songs, or the situations she deals with, often involve people in power (or the 'system') vs. those on the fringes - David vs. Goliath, for example. Her characters, like those in "Ironbound," are fighters - they keep coming back (like 'weeds'). So I'd agree that her music appeals to cynics, but maybe to those cynics who do not tolerate injustice. Or those who are just plain stubborn! Hmmm... on second thought, perhaps there's some idealism there as well? Interesting stuff to think about, -Rob