Subject: "Undertow"

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Subj: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 01:48:22 EST From: bobking@gate.net (Can't eat no 'much obliges') So about a week ago I'm cruising home from work, filled with my usual existential angst and rage, and decide to cool off by browsing the one decent independent record store I've found so far in West Palm Beach. It's one of those stores where you have a much better time if you just browse with no fixed idea of what you're searching for, and in fact as I'm thumbing through the "alternative" vinyl section, I spy ... ... could it be? ... Yes! A tan-yellow LP sleeve, with in large grey and then black letters the words: SUZANNE VEGA. It's the first album, and the first time I can recall seeing the LP version since the day I bought the cassette on Sept. 27, 1985, in the now-defunct Record Bar in State College, Pa. Though I treasure the tape beyond all reckoning, I remembered the album being neat because it had a different photo of her on the back (by Matthew Vega!) with the lyrics to "Cracking," and I was later sorry that I didn't get that version too when I had the chance. Oddly, this copy seemed to be in near-mint condition. I'm not sure how old this is, but it says "Printed in West Germany," which seems to put it back at least to 1990. (The catalog # is A&M 395 072-1 for those keeping track of the discography.) It also says "Distribution Polydor," which I believe is part of the Polygram empire, but it still may have been from before Polygram bought A&M. And what's really priceless is the lyric sheet -- in French, German and Italian. So "Mosse da Cavaliere" (Knight Moves) takes on a certain Dantean quality, with all those rhyming triplets ("Guarda mentre la regina/con una mossa falsa/si trasforma in pedina"), while Marlene becomes almost Wagnerian: ("Marlene sieht von der Wand aus zu/Tochter aus Elysium" ... OK, just kidding about that last part). However, I know enough French to realize that these are probably all pretty rudimentary translations, reminiscent of my recent computerized experiments with Spanish. For instance: "Ca n'arrive qu'une fois Mais ca arrive Souvent" "It only happens one time But it happens often" Or how about: "Aujourd'hui je suis Toute petite et toute bleue." Which as far as I can figure out translates to: "Today I am really little and really blue." So I hope these translations are for comprehension only, not for singing. Anyway, all this for $6. By far, the best part was taking it home and listening to it. I've never been one of those "vinyl is best" folks, but a before-now-unplayed LP on a decent stereo sounds *vastly* better than a cassette tape that's been played about 137,219 times over 11 years, especially when you're used to listening to it in your car. Her voice is crystal-clear, I can make out the overdubs, the instruments are actually distinguishable from each other ... makes me think I should upgrade Solitude and Days to CD or something. (Suzanne, those royalty checks will be in the mail soon). This is all pretty pointless, but I'm just overjoyed with my find and had to share it and urge everyone else out there to keep your eyes peeled. By the way, anyone have any ideas why this LP would still be floating around in the record stores after all these years? It wasn't in the used section. Oh, and my other discovery was the 4-CD box set of Laurie Anderson's _United States Live_, about which the fairest thing to say is probably ... well, I wouldn't *start* my collection with this one. However, I challenge anyone else to find a context for the line "Today I had to take a test in a Dairy Queen on another planet." -- Bob, pondering the conundrum "I'm not moving, doesn't mean I can't." -- Sonic Youth Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 03:13:09 EST From: Unique212@aol.com Hey Bob-a-ree-bop, Congratulations on your recent find. The old-cassette-to-new-vinyl-or-CD phenomenon can be pretty startling, as I found out when I replaced my tape with a CD copy of Sting's "Dream of the Blue Turtles" and found out the indistinguishable shout at the beginning of the title tune was one of the musicians yelling "Wait! Wait! What key is this in? What key is this in?" Does the subject line of this e-mail translate to "I am with the Undertow befriended"? VERY serious, as well as very mechanical... just doesn't have the same vibe as "I am friend to the undertow." << This is all pretty pointless, but I'm just overjoyed with my find and had to share it and urge everyone else out there to keep your eyes peeled. By the way, anyone have any ideas why this LP would still be floating around in the record stores after all these years? It wasn't in the used section.>> You seem to have stumbled onto a rarity, the record store that does not chuck all of its old stock after a few years. Either this is due to sheer laziness on the part of the owner or they purposely want to have rare recordings. <> Sure, how about this context -- the fourth book of Douglas Adams's Hitchihiker's Trilogy, otherwise known as "The Restaurant At The End of the Universe"? It would seem to be a similar setting. --U212, clearly in need of some sleep... P.S. I like your tag line, "Can't eat no 'much obliges'". Isn't that the eternal cry of the freelancer?!! Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 11:35:05 EST From: rwalters@lafayette.unocal.com (Rob Walters) Hello everyone, Bob King wrote: >It's the first album, and the first time I can recall seeing the LP >version since the day I bought the cassette on Sept. 27, 1985, in >the now-defunct Record Bar in State College, Pa. Congrats on your find - I don't "do vinyl" myself, but it sounds like this one would be worthwhile just to look at. And sadly, I can't recall the exact date I purchased "Suzanne Vega" - around summer '86.... :) >I remembered the album being neat >because it had a different photo of her on the back (by Matthew Vega If you want more cool early photos, check out the "Left of Center" CD single from 1986, with pics of Suzanne on various NYC streets. There are also two good pictures on the "Solitude Standing" CD single. >I should upgrade Solitude and Days to CD or something. By all means! I always just assume that people are listening on CD these days. Your tapes and/or vinyl copies aren't worn out yet? ;) >urge everyone else out there to keep your eyes >peeled. By the way, anyone have any ideas why this LP would still be >floating around in the record stores after all these years? It wasn't >in the used section. Could be just a leftover or something? It does seem pretty unusual... You're right though - gotta keep on the lookout. I ran across a "Book of Dreams" promo single from 1990 recently - used, but in good shape. However, expect to pay quite a bit more than $6 for used CD singles! Happy hunting, -Rob Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 16:59:43 EST From: Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se (Hugo Westerlund) At 01:55 10.2.97 +0000, Bob wrote: >Oh, and my other discovery was the 4-CD box set of Laurie Anderson's >_United States Live_, about which the fairest thing to say is >probably ... well, I wouldn't *start* my collection with this one. Well, maybe it's not the kind of record you play *every day* (I guess I haven't played mine in a couple of years), but it's one of the most mesmerizing recordings I've ever heard. There's a book that goes with it too (but you'll have to buy it separately) -- remember, Laurie Anderson is performance art, not music in the ordinary sense. Laurie Anderson has quite a few things in common with Suzanne, although she's also very different in many respects. They both challenge your ordinary points of views, makes you see things clearer. If you get the chance to see her live -- do it! Off topic, /Hugo Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 18:36:11 EST From: Unique212 Hi folks, Hugo wrote: << Laurie Anderson has quite a few things in common with Suzanne, although she's also very different in many respects. They both challenge your ordinary points of views, makes you see things clearer. If you get the chance to see her live -- do it! >> Among those things they have in common is that they both went to Barnard College in New York City and performed at the college's centennial celebration at Carnegie Hall. I second Hugo on going to see Laurie Anderson live, she puts on very interesting multimedia shows. U212 Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-10 23:27:46 EST From: bobking@gate.net (Robert King) Hey, I'm not Laurie-bashing at all; _Big Science_ happens to be the very first album I ever bought. And there are all sorts of moments in _United States_ that I'm enjoying immensely. However, it's probably not the best intro to her for someone who doesn't know what she's about. It's a huge hodgepodge of stuff over four CDs, some of which obviously was meant to work more on a visual level (which you can't see) than musically. My question while listening to it is "How the hell did she get away with this?" I'd say _Big Science_ or _Mister Heartbreak_ are much better at offering concise distillations of what she was doing in the early '80s, though neither one contains, say, her Dolly Parton impersonation. If you're already a fan, of course, it's great to be able to hear the whole show the way audiences experienced it back then. Too bad CD-ROMs weren't around then. You're absolutely right about the similarities with Suzanne, especially in Suzanne's more spoken-word moments ("It's a one-time thing ..."). My initial reaction after listening to Suzanne's first album was "kind of a folk-singing Laurie Anderson." (This was before Laurie started singing; she sounds nothing like SuzyV when she does.) There's also a similarity in their sometimes wry observations, though Laurie's tended to be more overtly cerebral. The other link, of course, is that Laurie is living with Suzanne's great musical role model, Lou Reed, who just dedicated his most recent album to her (meaning Laurie, not Suzanne). -- Bob Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-11 00:27:21 EST From: bobking@gate.net (Can't eat no 'much obliges') Her Uniqueness asks: > Does the subject line of this e-mail translate to "I am with the Undertow > befriended"? VERY serious, as well as very mechanical... just doesn't have > the same vibe as "I am friend to the undertow." I suppose so, but I don't know a whole lot of German. I know the verb goes at the end, and "freund" means friend, and "Ich bin" is familiar from JFK in West Berlin. It does sound very wooden. Then again, Suzanne's wording is kind of odd, too. > You seem to have stumbled onto a rarity, the record store that does > not chuck > all of its old stock after a few years. Either this is > due to sheer laziness > on the part of the owner or they purposely > want to have rare recordings. I think the latter. The place is literally stacked floor to ceiling with boxes of old LPs, ranging from Perry Como to the Grassy Knoll Gunmen. I haven't dug through more than a fraction of it, though most of it seems to be stuff like old Uriah Heap and Pure Prairie League records from the '70s. There's also this odd time lag -- they have almost nothing that's current, but lots of things you would have expected to have vanished from the shelves four years ago. I think I'll be back. I am wondering if they've actually had Suzanne's record lying around for 11 years. When I walked out the clerk probably said "God, I never thought we'd unload that thing." Lucky for me, anyway. > < > "Today I had to take a test in a Dairy Queen on another planet.">> > > Sure, how about this context -- the fourth book of Douglas Adams's > Hitchihiker's Trilogy, otherwise known as "The Restaurant At The End of the > Universe"? It would seem to be a similar setting. OK, you win! -- Bob, e-mailing in lieu of work Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-11 00:38:19 EST From: Unique212@aol.com Hey Bob, << Her Uniqueness asks:>> ROFL!! Really, much obliged... (tastes great! less filling!, them much obliges...) <<> Does the subject line of this e-mail translate to "I am with the Undertow befriended"? VERY serious, as well as very mechanical... just doesn't have the same vibe as "I am friend to the undertow.">> << - I suppose so, but I don't know a whole lot of German. I know the verb goes at the end, and "freund" means friend, and "Ich bin" is familiar from JFK in West Berlin. It does sound very wooden. Then again, Suzanne's wording is kind of odd, too. >> I always thought that it was a sort of glancing reference to the character lists at the beginning of plays, such as "Mercutio, friend to Romeo" or something similar. Alternatively, "I am friend to the undertow" sings better than "I am friendly with the undertow" or "I hang with the undertow." Other ideas, anyone? -- U212, posting instead of watching Conan O'Brian.. Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet Date: 97-02-11 06:26:39 EST From: kkorger@zedat.fu-berlin.de (K2) Hi Bob, Seems what you found is an import of the 'official' German Suzanne Vega album, at least that's what I thought it is, since I bought it in '87, together with "Solitude". My copy has the same catalog number and I never saw it later in a shop. I kept it as a treasure, just played tape copies and lost them in car radios producing tape salad. (You're very lucky with your year-old original or your car must be a Cadillac :-) On the sleeve there's a b/w picture of Suzanne openly looking into your eye, with the wind in her hair or couldn't find the comb in the morning. It's looks very fresh, like a cold blue February back-in-the-city morning; I don't miss no green apple. She's wearing a black suit, probably the same as on the back side photo. I love that picture! Sometimes it made me dream to walk those cobble-stone New York streets with her one afternoon. And it still does. On the inner sleeve I see Suzanne's very young face reflected in a small oval mirror, painting her eyelid in the light of a single bulb with its connection cable above the white chalked wall, the kind to find in cheap apartments. It has all the lyrics and the A&M logo with the record number. The lyrics sheet: I found translations included in all 5 albums except 99.9F and the German ones are all, as you put it politely, >for comprehension only, not for singing<. As an exception, I like the Small Blue Thing lines: "Mit den Knien an meinem Mund \ bin ich vollkommen rund." The sheet then inspired me to try to keep the rhythm, even if it has a slightly different meaning. I am friend to the undertow I take you in, I don't let go And now I have you Der Strudel ist mir wohlvertraut Wirst angezogen, eingesaugt Jetzt hab ich dich There's a cemetery in Vienna, close to the Danube, for all the people who chose the river as their last bed and didn't flow down beyond that point, because of the undertow there. Until the 1930s a man was employed to take them out and give them a decent burial. In the 80s as an old man he saved it from being "integrated" into an industrial estate. He told some stories in a radio documentary. Many of the people there have no names and known relatives, but two of them are lovers who couldn't get together in life. I believe right now if I could I would swallow you whole I would leave only bone and teeth We could see what was underneath And we would be free then... Kork Subj: re: "I am friend to the undertow" Date: 97-02-11 09:20:40 EST From: 4dm@qlink.queensu.ca (Magenta) > I always thought that it was a sort of glancing reference to the character > lists at the beginning of plays, such as "Mercutio, friend to Romeo" or > something similar. Alternatively, "I am friend to the undertow" sings better > than "I am friendly with the undertow" or "I hang with the undertow." Other > ideas, anyone? > > -- U212, posting instead of watching Conan O'Brian.. I personally love that line from the song. My favourite line from the first album -- it fits the melody perfectly and is a great subtle hook. If I had to rephrase it, however, I might do something like this: "Let me into the undertow" "Saw my face with the undertow" "I befriended the undertow" The original is really the evocative phrasing. Simple, gets the idea across. Plus it's tough to rewrite lyrics to a song you've already had a preconception on. I.D. Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! Date: 97-02-11 14:01:53 EST From: rwalters@lafayette.unocal.com (Rob Walters) Hello everyone, Unique212 inscribed in cuneiform: >I always thought that it was a sort of glancing reference to the character >lists at the beginning of plays, such as "Mercutio, friend to Romeo" or >something similar. Hmmmm.... Hadn't thought of that, but didn't Suzanne major in English at Barnard? So it's possible, I guess. :) >Alternatively, "I am friend to the undertow" sings better >than "I am friendly with the undertow" or "I hang with the undertow." Other >ideas, anyone? I always read this line to mean "I am *similar* to the Undertow." How is the narrator like an undertow? - "I take you in, I don't let go." Perhaps the word "friend" is used here in the sense of "kindred spirit." She wants to be like this undertow current that wears down, erodes "sand against the stone, against the shoreline." The process liberates "what was underneath," the *essence* - bones, teeth, the "edge of a knife," the "point of a needle." Just my thoughts on it. >-- U212, posting instead of watching Conan O'Brian.. -Rob, posting instead of attending Mardi Gras festivities ---------------------------------- rwalters@lafayette.unocal.com *any opinion expressed or information provided is my own and not that of my employer* Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet Date: 97-02-12 01:01:12 EST From: jabeine@ouray.cudenver.edu (Joe) On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, K2 wrote: > There's a cemetery in Vienna, close to the Danube, for all the people who chose the > river as their last bed and didn't flow down beyond that point, because of the undertow > there. Until the 1930s a man was employed to take them out and give them a decent > burial. In the 80s as an old man he saved it from being "integrated" into an industrial > estate. He told some stories in a radio documentary. Many of the people there have no > names and known relatives, but two of them are lovers who couldn't get together in > life. Where did you find this story? And where can I get more information about this? Regards, Joe Subj: Re: Ich bin mit der Rueckstroemung befreundet! Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:00:45 +0100 From: Stephan Natschlaeger (stn@garfield.tphys.uni-linz.ac.at) On Feb 11, 12:34am, Can't eat no 'much obliges' wrote: > Subject: Re: Ich bin mit der Ruckstromung befreundet! > Her Uniqueness asks: > > > Does the subject line of this e-mail translate to "I am with the Undertow > > befriended"? VERY serious, as well as very mechanical... just doesn't have > > the same vibe as "I am friend to the undertow." > > I suppose so, but I don't know a whole lot of German. I know the > verb goes at the end, and "freund" means friend, and "Ich bin" is > familiar from JFK in West Berlin. It does sound very wooden. Then > again, Suzanne's wording is kind of odd, too. Hi all! In case you're interested. "Ich bin mit der Rueckstroemung befreundet!" means: "I am a friend _with_ the undertow" Doesn't befriend mean to help someone or to care about him or is it just another way of saying to be a friend? And "to be similar to the undertow" would read in German: "Ich bin der Rueckstroemung aehnlich" "Ich gleiche der Rueckstroemung" "Ich bin wie die Rueckstroemung" Those might get the original meaning better. By the way, other possible translations for undertow would be Sog, Strudel, Unterstroemung. So go ahead and make your choice ;) Stephan. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stephan Natschlaeger "God doesn't play dice" A.Einstein, Institut fuer Theoretische Physik "God not only does play dice, but Johannes Kepler Universitaet, Linz he sometimes throws them to where stn@tphys.uni-linz.ac.at they can't be seen" S.Hawking. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Vienna, Time & The Thin Man Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:50:29 +-100 From: K2 (kkorger@zedat.fu-berlin.de) On Tue, 11 Feb '97 Joe asked >Where did you find this story? And where can I get more information >about this? It was in a replay of a radio feature played last November on 'Toten- sonntag' / 'Remembering Sunday' and unfortunately I didn't tape it. If I remember well, it was produced by a Vienna radio station around 1988, I think. I try to get more information, but be prepared to wait weeks or months for results. The place itself is called 'Der Friedhof der Namenlosen' / 'The Garden of the Nameless' and you find it on the map on the SE edge of the city, near where the 'Donau-Oder-Canal' is leading into the Danube, very close to the Albern freight train station. *** After World War I, with the seizure of the even-then long-outdated Danube monarchy, Vienna lost almost all of her eastern hinterland but gained many of its former inhabitants. Maybe it was that multicultural but to a large extent backwards-looking society that made her people develop a more relaxed, natural relationship toward death and the somber tones of life going with it. Whereas most modern industrial, forward- looking societies try to ban the Thin Man from their daily presence, keeping him as something not to speak about, Viennese seemed to be less fearful, sometimes even flirting with him as a kind of neighbor. And if not, even as a stranger, he's tolerated in the cafe, somewhere at the table in the corner. >From where he inspires the work of local artists, writers and songwriters; together with his sister Time. Where everything must be new and is old a day later, she's allowed to live in isolated pockets of the past, to leave her tiny traces, like in old forgotten graveyards. Suzanne comes from a very different environment. She faces the Thin Man in a less 'Viennese' way. He is not her friend, but she is not afraid of feeling him nearby sometimes. She listens to his whispers (almost as to the disturbed next-seat neighbor in the tube), she refuses to speak to him directly (instead she speaks to us, the other passengers, of him in the third person): she keeps the distance. Bruce in his 'The Essential Suzanne Vega' essay says: >This song--with its hip beat, electric piano, and cool muted trumpets-- >paints a portrait of the Grim Reaper himself and does so with a witty, >playful, and light touch. Again, it's hard to find many other pop music >composers who would even think of constructing a song around such a >concept. In Goethe's Faust, Mephisto first comes in as a black poodle, then he variedly changes his appearance. Not only HE is a person, he is the ghost who negates life. He is not good, but is he evil? Mephisto has a lot of humor, he is very intelligent. In the end he is sent by the 'Old Man'. Although he thinks he's clever enough to trick him off, he has to play his role in the world theater. Suzanne's Thin Man He closely adapts to the environment. "Take a walk on the wild side" -- in New York it seems he has a cool Lou Reed kind of voice. To me 'Thin Man' is a song where "the feel" (Thanks, Christopher) outweighs the words. She's singing 'blue notes'? And I feel like the black keys. All in between all defined feelings. [Exactly -- this is a sort of classic blues, where there's a shift from the major key to the minor key achieved by singing the blue notes. - Ed.] If Solitude were a person, she would be the ageless woman "in the slant of the late afternoon". But if Death were one, what kind of character is he? Is he the one that always reminds us what we have to lose and ultimately will lose? What would he think of himself? And if God is not a person, can Death be one? I'm listening to the song over and over again. Kork