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From rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com Mon Mar 6 19:28:22 1995
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:18:45 CST
From: Rob Walters <rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com>
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow

Hello everyone,

Another agreement with the straightforward line on the meaning of 'steel side of the knife.' But also...

Jeremy wrote:
>I seem to remember some recurring knife and/or cutting imagery in other SV
>songs-- "Straight Lines" come immediately to mind but I'm sure there are
>others.. Haven't thought too long or hard about what this may mean.

Another one is (curiously enough) 'Undertow', specifically the lines

I wanted to learn all the secrets from the edge of a knife/
from the point of a needle, from a diamond, from a bullet in flight.

I am under the impression that this song, however, concerns anorexia or some other eating disorder or obsession; something that "takes you in (and) won't let go." Consider the lines

I wanted to see how it would feel to be that sleek/
But instead I find this hunger's made me weak.
I believe right now, if I could, I would swallow you whole/
I would leave only bones and teeth/
We could see what was underneath/
And I [you] would be free then, free then...

Perhaps the narrator is contemplating the fate of someone in the same situation she has been in, and recalling the feeling of liberation she felt upon being 'sleek' - a feeling of power that ultimately turns to weakness. There's also possibly a double meaning here - the other one being stripping away someone else's pretensions, disguises, etc. to find out what they're like 'underneath', but I don't think that's the primary concern in this case. The switch from 'I' to 'you' from the first to second verse is also significant, I believe.

There are all kinds of interesting juxtapositions in this song; one can feel the hardness and sharpness of the knife, needle, diamond and bullet, but these contrast in a rather remarkable manner with 'soft' images of water (an undertow is an ocean current) and erosion:

...salt wearing down to the bone <-another 'skeletal' image
like sand against the stone, against the shoreline.

This suggests to me a process of gradual wearing away, i.e. starvation. For this interpretation to hold up, two narrators are required: the one I mentioned, plus the 'personification' of anorexia or bulimia, which is the 'I' in the line 'I am friend to the undertow, I take you in, I don't let go...'. All in all, a wonderful, although not an uplifting, song.

Replies, alternate interpretations welcomed.

-Rob
rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com

From moshe@amanda.dorsai.org Mon Mar 6 19:29:07 1995
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:44:54 -0500 (est)
From: Moshe Feder <moshe@amanda.dorsai.org>
To: Undertow <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow

On Thu, 16 Feb 1995, Rob Walters wrote:

First of all, let me add my vote for the sex-change operation interpretation of "steel side of the knife." That's how I've heard it from the start.

I found your gloss on "Undertow" illuminating, and having read your explanation, I find the anorexia idea convincing, except perhaps for the idea that one of the figures in the song is the personification of the disorder.

For what it's worth, however, I'd like to mention that I've had another reaction to this song, which perhaps could coexist in parallel. The line:

I believe right now, if I could, I would swallow you whole

has always struck me as expressive of an (no pun intended) all-consuming passion for a loved one, or even an unhealthy obsessive love. Certainly I've felt at times that I couldn't hold my lover tightly enough, and meta- phorically speaking, somehow swallowing her up would have been the next step. Think of how adults tell children - probably scaring them out of their wits in some cases - "Oh, aren't you cute! I could just eat you up!"

So the idea of swallowing or consuming as an expression of love isn't that outlandish. In this interpretation, the resultant freedom would be the freedom from the body's limitations. (And perhaps in this way it circles back towards your idea.)

What do you think?

Moshe Feder ===> ===> ===> ===> moshe@amanda.dorsai.org
Typos unintentionla >>>FIAWOL<<< days: 718-461-5302

From Jeremy513@aol.com Mon Mar 6 19:30:27 1995
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:23:18 -0500
From: Jeremy513@aol.com
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: undertow &more

Yes, "Undertow" was one of the knife songs I was trying to remember. And now that I think about it, "Neighborhood Girls" has the line: "And there's a razor's edge/That I have lost somewhere/And I would like it back/So if you've seen it anywhere..."

Actually, the knife thing I just kinda stumbled upon thinking about this "steel side..." discussion. A different recurring image I've often wondered about but have yet to give serious pondering time to is the eye or the eyes. You know--the vision thing. There's a lot of that--not only the two "eye songs" on SS, which are back to back, but two other lines in particular that have stood out to me over the years-- "You've got the eyes of a friend," once again from "Neighborhood Girls," and "I see how their eyes are gathered into one," from "Solitude Standing." As I said, I've thought about it without *really* thinking about it; now that there's a perfect outlet for such ruminations, I may, um, *see* what I come up with. Or you guys go right ahead and try.

As for "Undertow," I always sorta vaguely assumed it was about sex-- not to get too terribly graphic, but "swallow you whole" led me there. And then the idea of being friend to the undertow I took as a metaphorical reference to hormonal shifts-- tied to the parallel between the ocean's tides and female body cycles. But, again, yet another I've thought only a little, not at all deeply, about. That's the problem (not really a problem, of course) with many of her songs-- a great part of their intangible allure is their mystery-- even if you could figure them out by analyzing them to death, you're not sure you want to. And what she does so well, as I think I said on a relatively long-ago post, is make the mystery so evocative that you're sure there's great meaning there, as opposed to being mysterious just for the sake of being mysterious. So it does make you want to work at them. Obviously. :)

Jeremy

From jmora@netcom.com Mon Mar 6 19:30:39 1995
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 11:41:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "b.j. mora" <jmora@netcom.com>
To: SV list <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: undertow &more

> As for "Undertow," I always sorta vaguely assumed it was about sex-- not to
> get too terribly graphic, but "swallow you whole" led me there. And then the

I think it goes deeper than sex - more about intimacy. There lots of references in this song to being "sleek" and sharp (stanza quoted below), and I see that as representing that time in a relationship when you are really of one mind with your significant other. A powerful draw, but one which can also chew you up and spit you out.

"I wanted to learn all the secrets from the edge of a knife
>From the point of a needle, from a diamond, from a bullet in flight
I would be free then..."

b.j. mora --------------------- jmora@netcom.com ------

Subject: Undertow and more
Date: 95-02-26 08:13:23 EST
From: Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se (Hugo Westerlund ipm)
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu (Undertow)

Hi Everyone--

Here I am posting again :-)

I'll keep myself from *analysing* Undertow -- that songs deserves whole books to be written about it. But I agree with all the interpretations given so far: passionate love, intimacy, sex and anorexia/bulimia. But as usual, I want to add a symbolic dimension: Eating (incorporating, assimilating, accepting) is one of the most basic manifestations of life, and so is the capacity NOT to eat (refusing, and thus defending oneself from the intrusion of the not-me, which may be toxic). There is no wonder that eating has a very strong existential dimension. So I think reading the song as being about an eating disorder is, although interesting, too restricted -- it is about something that we all know about from our own experience. (Does it sound terribly abstract? I'm just trying to avoid being too graphic...)

Let me also add another interpretation: It could also be a song about the singer capturing the audience (why is this mailing list, just as the defunct English fanzine, called Undertow?) and about the songwriter trying to get to the essence of things. Those are very beautiful metaphors to me.

Having said all this, I nevertheless do agree with Jeremy that analysing too much is bad. There should be some mystery left. I hope I don't kill the mystery for anyone with my interpretative efforts -- the intention is certainly not to define and restrict the meaning of the songs, but to "amplify", i.e. to add material that might open the eye to new, exciting dimensions in the songs. Frankly, I don't think the mystery of a Suzanne Vega song CAN be taken away.

The fish of the 99.9F booklet... I have no idea how and why it ended up there. But I'm struck by the absurdity of the situation: The fish is literary taken out of its element, where it used to swim freely, hidden from view. Now it is held up on display, dead, much like the poultry Suzanne has written about before (as we all know, Fancy Poultry is REALLY a song about chicken parts :-)

And the tableau from Fat Man & Dancing Girl. Well, the circus, just like the theatre, is an excellent metaphor for life; but another explanation, I guess, is that Fat Man & Dancing Girl is the only song on the album you *could* make a tableau of...

Finally, I'm planning to write a short record buyer's guide for the Suzanne Vega WWW site. Which album would *you* recommend to someone who hasn't heard Suzanne before? Please answer by private e-mail.

/Hugo

P.S. Farha, here are some other female artists you may find interesting: Natalie Merchant of 10,000 Maniacs (my favourite for breakfast), Kristin Hersh (if you like the dramatic dimension), Christine Lavin (witty, urban folk), Laurie Anderson (sharp, penetrating, intellectual), or Kate Bush (to whom Tori Amos is usually compared). But there is no one like Suzanne...

Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se

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