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From gkb9993@email.unc.edu Sun Jul 16 01:49:44 1995
I know this was an old thread but I just got caught up on my mail, but I
just wanted to get some feed back. Now if what I am about to say is
common knowledge I apoligize or if it is way off base. when I first
heard the song and now when i hear it, i always imagine a young lady who
is coming to terms with a hidden memory of molestation from childhood. I
always thought it spoke of the taboo of the subject in the line "Mother
the doctor he knows.....but he doesn't dare ask the right questions"
then later in the song she(Vega) addresses the common disbelief of
parents when their child tells them of the act -- "Mother your eyes have
gone suddenly cold....once i did think that i'd find comfort there and
instead you've gone hard and suspecting"
>I know this was an old thread but I just got caught up on my mail, but I
Galen: That's an interesting interpretation, but I'm wondering what, in
that case, "bad wisdom" is referring to.
Tom
Tom Buckley
In response to Galen's analysis of "Bad Wisdom": I never really thought of
the song in those terms and am very impressed with your analysis. I think
you certainly pulled out evidence from the song that would point in the
direction of a case of molestation. Very interesting to look at the song in
a new light.
I know that I once heard Suzanne interviewed about the song, and she
purposefully left the song ambiguous so that there could be many
interpretations of it. I have always thought of it as being about the AIDS
crisis myself.
"Bad Wisdom" points to the idea that one moments indiscretion: unsafe sex or
IV drug use could sentince one to death: "What price to pay/For bad wisdom.
Another theme is the governments inactivity regarding the crisis: "I've
fallen through the cracks/And there's no getting back"
On a personal level is the misinformation associated w/ AIDS and how people
w/ HIV/AIDS are unjustly treated by society and family for fear of the
disease: "Mother my friends are no longer my friends/And the games we once
played have no meaning." also "Mother your eyes have gone suddenly cold..."
But again, the song was left vague and could be about any disease or
situation where a person feels outside of the system or rejected because of
things beyond ones control. AIDS/Molestation/Breast cancer/cancer in
general/any of these could be placed into the song and work.
It's a really great song, I'm glad you brought it up.
Wendy!!!
In response to my post Tom Buckley asked...
Tom
I would say that "bad wisdom" would refer to having knowledge of a darker
side of humanity, in a loss of innocence sort of way. I guess it is like
the story of Adam in Eve from the Bible, they ate from the tree of
knowledge and the wisdom they recieved could be seen as "bad wisdom".
I may be rambling so I'll stop.
Galen "I hope I explained myself" Black
Fabulous come back to the "Bad Wisdom" part of the song. I think you may
have something here that we may want to discuss further. Having knowledge of
the darker side of humanity. I certainly think that no matter what one's
interpretation of the song may be, I certainly think that "Bad Wisdom" could
be a loss of innocence through the knowledge of, as Galen so eloquently put
it, "the darker side of humanity." as well as, perhaps, one's own bad
judgement. There is definately an unexplored level of the song being
scratched upon.
an unplanned pregnancy is still what i think bad wisdom is depicting. but
one can certainly interpret the lyrics on other levels just as
convincingly.
i have started reading an account of casper hauser. hopefully this will
give a clearer sense of what wooden horse is about. i had always pictured
the trojan horse when i listened to it.
pete
PSM
> Fabulous come back to the "Bad Wisdom" part of the song. I think you may
I've always thought the song a fairly straightforward account of abuse
(probably of a sexual sort), and the unexpected reaction of the
narrator's mother when the accusations were made. However, discussions
here have proved interesting -- abuse of any kind, or just some
realization of the 'darker side of humanity', certainly fit the song.
At any rate, that's always been my interpretation of the "price" for bad
wisdom: a loss of innocence and belief in the rightness of what can
happen to you.
--
On Thu, 13 Jul 1995, GALEN BLACK wrote:
> I would say that "bad wisdom" would refer to having knowledge of a darker
No, you're not rambling. Not at all. I'm convinced that almost all
Suzanne's lyrics can be interpreted in this broad way. Her inspiration
may have been a very precise situation, and you and me may also think of
very precise situations in our own lives when we hear the song. But the
song is something more than a simple account of a situation.
Because of this, I always find it fascinating to hear different people's
personal interpretations. And although they may be very different at a
surface level -- molestation or AIDS -- there must be something they have
in common. And this something, I believe, is the very heart of the matter.
The existential dilemma underlying all the various manifestations.
So, listening to a song, I tend to remember certain feelings I've had or
certain situations I've been in. But this is not a simple recall or
reenaction of the original situation -- through the song, I can connect
the petty, but often very painful, details of my own personal life to
something bigger, and in this process it is as if my feelings are purified.
[ -- cut -- ]
/Hugo
Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se
Like Hugo I think Suzanne's songs are best left interpreted based on
each individual's experiences. Thus, to you this particular song may
be about pregnancy; to another it may be a disease (AIDS?) or some
harsh memory from the past. Suzanne likely intended to be vague enough
to allow such individual responses, but I'm certain in her mind the
subject was clear. I, of course, have my opinion....
I've interpreted "Bad Wisdom" to be about AIDS or, perhaps, a sexually-
transmitted disease. Thus, the doctor examines her and reads the
"strange information" but is afraid (embarrassed?) to "ask the right
question." The disease has caused her friends to look differently at
her: "..my friends are no longer my friends." She asks her mother why
the legal system has betrayed her: "..you've taught the laws are so
fine if I'm *good* I'll be protected." Yet, because she has crossed
the line she has become an outcast: "..I've fallen through the crack
and there's no getting back." Society looks down on those who contract
AIDS and has no sympathy for their plight.
Even her own mother now looks at her suspiciously and with disdain:
"..your eyes have gone suddenly cold...you've gone hard and suspect-
ing." Did her daughter contract this disease by sharing a needle, or,
worse, is she a prostitute? In the end she feels alone("I'm cut at the
root like a weed") and the result is clear: "..like a woman in the
street I will pay for my life with my body." A *dear* price, indeed,
to pay for "bad wisdom."
But this is merely my angle; yours may be different.
Nice thread Galen!
Paul
My two cents:
I thought the interpretation of incest for this song was interesting,
and certainly a good one. For myself, I had always thought it referred
to the more "mundane" problem of a very young woman becoming pregnant
from an indiscreet discretion, so to speak.
As for what the bad wisdom is, to me it seemed to be the wisdom that
must come from such a life-changing occurence as this, whether it be
from early pregancy or incest, it must be very traumatic and would
certainly make a young girl grow up before her time. This robbing of
her childhood and brutal thrust into adulthood could bring lots of bad
wisdom. I think I'm getting this inference from "My friends are no
longer my friends/and the games that they play have no meaning."
I admire SV's wish to remain ambiguous on this song. I've always
believed that the listener should be the interpreter, if one is needed.
Besides, it makes the discussion groups more interesting. ;)
Alan
You wrote:
>Tom
Alan
Subj: Re: Bad Wisdom
On Mon, 17 Jul 1995 WChapwomyn@aol.com wrote:
> Nice analysis of "Bad Wisdom"--of course, I agree, you just broke it down
and
This may very well be the case. But to me, that line doesn't refer to some
kind of punishment for living a life, rather, it makes me think of someone
who pays with her body in a desperate attempt to learn to have a life. It
may refer to someone who tries to buy love with sex in a futile search for
a meaning in life. But it could also refer to an anorexic who sacrifices
her body to rid herself of all earthly needs. In fact, it could refer to
any kind of psychosomatic illness, where the instinctive attempts to survive
have gone astray.
If you read the lines preceding the discussed one, you find that the
reason for having to pay with her body is that "there's no one to hear my
small story". I think that this refers to the devaluation of the inner
world I was talking about in my earlier post tonight. If the inner world
is not allowed to live, how could the body go on living? After all we are
one whole person, of which the psyche and the soma are only aspects.
/Hugo
Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se
VegaNet@aol.com and
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 23:03:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: GALEN BLACK
To: suzanne vega
Subject: Bad Wisdom
Like I said I may be reading a little to deep, but it's just what i hear
when I listen to the song.
From tbuckley@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Jul 16 01:49:53 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:56:18 -0500
From: Tom Buckley
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Bad Wisdom
>just wanted to get some feed back. Now if what I am about to say is
>common knowledge I apoligize or if it is way off base. when I first
>heard the song and now when i hear it, i always imagine a young lady who
>is coming to terms with a hidden memory of molestation from childhood. I
>always thought it spoke of the taboo of the subject in the line "Mother
>the doctor he knows.....but he doesn't dare ask the right questions"
>then later in the song she(Vega) addresses the common disbelief of
>parents when their child tells them of the act -- "Mother your eyes have
>gone suddenly cold....once i did think that i'd find comfort there and
>instead you've gone hard and suspecting"
>Like I said I may be reading a little to deep, but it's just what i hear
>when I listen to the song.
Division of Rhetoric and Composition
University of Texas at Austin
(512) 471-8368
From WChapwomyn@aol.com Sun Jul 16 01:50:01 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:23:08 -0400
From: WChapwomyn@aol.com
To: Undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Bad Wisdom
From gkb9993@email.unc.edu Sun Jul 16 01:50:09 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:32:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: GALEN BLACK
To: suzanne vega
Subject: Re. Re bad Wisdom
Galen: That's an interesting interpretation, but I'm wondering what,
in
that case, "bad wisdom" is referring
to.
From WChapwomyn@aol.com Sun Jul 16 01:50:11 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:04:15 -0400
From: WChapwomyn@aol.com
To: Undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Re. Re bad Wisdom
Good interpretation Galen--I'm fascinated!
Wendy!
From PS_MUSSELMAN@ACAD.FANDM.EDU Sun Jul 16 01:50:14 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:14:44 +0100
From: Pete Spence Musselman
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: unplanned
From cinnamon@one.net Sun Jul 16 01:50:17 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:56:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "r. n. dominick"
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Re. Re bad Wisdom
> have something here that we may want to discuss further. Having knowledge of
> the darker side of humanity.
http://w3.one.net/~cinnamon/ cinnamon@one.net
From Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se Sun Jul 16 01:50:24 1995
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:59:10 +0200 (METDST)
From: Hugo Westerlund ipm
To: Undertow
Subject: Re: Re. Re bad Wisdom
> side of humanity, in a loss of innocence sort of way. I guess it is like
> the story of Adam in Eve from the Bible, they ate from the tree of
> knowledge and the wisdom they recieved could be seen as "bad wisdom".
> I may be rambling so I'll stop.
From pmurf@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 16 01:50:27 1995
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:17:19 -0700
From: Paul Murphy
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Bad Wisdom
pmurf@ix.netcom.com
From sundiver@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 16 01:50:34 1995
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 07:41:10 -0700
From: Alan
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Bad Wisdom
From sundiver@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 16 01:50:36 1995
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 07:42:47 -0700
From: Alan
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Re. Re bad Wisdom
>
>In response to my post Tom Buckley asked...
>Galen: That's an interesting interpretation, but I'm wondering what,
>in
>that case, "bad wisdom" is referring
>to.
>
>
>I would say that "bad wisdom" would refer to having knowledge of a
darker
>side of humanity, in a loss of innocence sort of way. I guess it is
like
>the story of Adam in Eve from the Bible, they ate from the tree of
>knowledge and the wisdom they recieved could be seen as "bad wisdom".
>I may be rambling so I'll stop.
>
>Galen "I hope I explained myself" Black
>
Yeah, this is what I meant in my other message.
Date: 95-07-24 17:14:16 EDT
From: Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se (Hugo Westerlund ipm)
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu (Undertow)
> unpacked it much better than I. I had forgotten about the line: "I will
pay
> for my life with my body." I think that is a very strong arguement for the
> analysis of having contracted a disease of some sort through "Bad Wisdom".
Hugo G. Westerlund <Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se>
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