Suzanne Vega
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"As Girls Go" (Continued)
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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:09:29 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Moeroa <Paul_Lebeau@equinox.gen.nz>
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
Bob King wrote:
> Then Suzanne expresses her curiosity: "What happened
> to you ..." ("more girl than girls are" probably refers to the
> other person dressing/acting more femininely than biological
> women generally care to)
I agree with most of your interpretation, although
my read on it is slightly different on a couple of points.
For this bit I think Suzanne was trying to say that she (the transsexual) was 'more girl than girls' are because she was so positive about her femaleness that she had to change her gender despite the biological evidence. Most women don't have the same conviction on femininity - because they just are and don't think about it..
> question. "Dark side of a life" could refer to "dark" as in hidden,
> since the status of a person's genitals is kind of a private
> matter, or dark as in "gloomy, dismal," referring to whatever
Or dark as in hidden... her secret that she keeps from the people she meets..
> But we also we have this really weird shift into first person
> early in the song, and that starts to throw my theory off: "If I
> could pull this off/would I know for certain/the real situation/
> behind the curtain."
I just took this as the curtain being a metaphor for her skirt. Suzy was just curious about what was (or wasn't!) between her legs.. 'if I pull this (skirt) off, would I know for certain?', whether she had had the surgery ('felt the steel side of the knife').
> My main theory is that these are the thoughts of the crossdresser
> wondering if he can be accepted as a woman in society and, by
> being treated as one, learn the secrets of what many guys tend
> to regard as the mysteries of women's lives. (Such as, what DO they
> talk about in the bathroom together?)
I disagree. In the early days of this list, someone posted that they had heard that this song was just about a waitress in a bar that Suzanne had been in.
I think that the straightforward explanation works best. It's just expressing Suzannes curiousity about this person, albeit in her inimitable poetic style which we all love.
Paul
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:41:43 -0500
From: Jeremy513@aol.com
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
Ok, my 2c...
On the one hand, I line up with the straightforward explanation folks--the sex-change thing makes perfect sense. I would not have assumed that Suzanne was striving for ambiguity here as much as for an original, memorable turn of phrase-- sort of in the (midcareer era) Joni Mitchell school of songwriting... a lyric fragment of Joni's comes particularly to mind: she once sang the words "between the forceps and the stone" to mean "from birth to death." Obviously the second way is the direct meaning, but the first way is a great turn of phrase, and anything that makes you stop and interpret for a moment or two provides, IMO, a richer experience as a listener/reader/whatever.
On the other hand, Hugo does bring up an interesting point:
>there must be some, conscious or unconscious, intention, and
>therefore I think alternative symbolic (rather than metaphorical)
>interpretations arecalled for
With artists whose work you value, speculation on unconscious intention can, obviously, be an interesting exercise. My mind is sorta blank right now, but I seem to remember some recurring knife and/or cutting imagery in other SV songs-- "Straight Lines" come immediately to mind but I'm sure there are others.. Haven't thought too long or hard about what this may mean. Plus, of course, there's the ongoing, underlying flesh/blood motif for the whole "99.9F" album, so asking about a sex-change operation in a way that accentuates the, um, mutilation involved probably fits in.
Now, gee, why am i rambling on and on about this? Clearly, because I have work of my own to do and I'm *procrastinating* big time..
Till next time..
Jeremy
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:18:45 CST
From: Rob Walters <rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com>
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow
Hello everyone,
Another agreement with the straightforward line on the meaning of 'steel side of the knife.' But also...
Jeremy wrote:
>I seem to remember some recurring knife and/or cutting imagery in other SV
>songs-- "Straight Lines" come immediately to mind but I'm sure there are
>others.. Haven't thought too long or hard about what this may mean.
Another one is (curiously enough) 'Undertow', specifically the lines
I wanted to learn all the secrets from the edge of a knife/
from the point of a needle, from a diamond, from a bullet in flight.
[cut: click here to go to the Undertow thread]
-Rob
rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:09:19 -0500
From: TIMEWARP23@aol.com
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
>> I think the simple, prosaic, boring
>> interpretation makes the most sense: the song is a
>> conversation with a crossdresser or transsexual, and the
>> "steel side of the knife" question refers to the sex-change
>> operation.
What in the world are you talking about? There _is_ no "simple, prosaic, boring interpretation" of those line... it _is_ a metaphor. There is not a "straight forward" way to interpret the lines. If it was not meant to be interpreted in a metaphoric way it would say "did you ever have the sex-change operation?"
Suzanne is, in the best traditions of poetics and songwriting, saying something in an artistic way, and so lines might be able to be interpreted in many ways. As an English major that studies all kinds of works of art involving language and as a writer I resent this implication that one interpretation is "better" than another, especially for these kind of deep metaphoric lines. _Any_ interpretation is valid if you can show some sort of evidence and/or background to back it up. That is what you did and that is what I did.
Let's swap ideas... they are all interesting...
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:44:54 -0500 (est)
[cut]
First of all, let me add my vote for the sex-change operation
interpretation of "steel side of the knife." That's how I've heard it
from the start.
[cut: click here to go to the Undertow thread]
Moshe Feder ===> ===> ===> ===> moshe@amanda.dorsai.org
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 15:01:01 +0200 (METDST)
Okey, folks, here is my SIMPLE interpretation of As Girls Go:
The narrator, I venture to call her Suzanne, is sitting in a local
restaurant, waiting for her food. She is looking at the waitress, a
stunning girl. She never really thought of it before -- but there is
something vaguely masculine about the waitress. Still, she looks very
much like a girl...
You make a really good girl
"But there IS something strange about her... Could she be a guy
underneath? I wonder...
If I could pull this off
"Well, there's something unnatural about the her, something strained,
but she is very beautiful none the less...
So beautiful
"Must be a guy ... she looks too feminine ... a transvestite. Or maybe
she's had an operation. But why?
What happened to you?
"I guess I'll never know. I wonder if she even asks herself... She
seems alright so far...
Would you ever show or tell
"But if we dig a bit... What happened, really?
Let's chronicle
"Well, it's really none of my business... Besides, it really doesn't
matter.
Doesn't matter to me
"And she looks good..."
You make a really good girl...
***
Suzanne is just sitting there, observing and thinking to herself. No
need for a dialogue, changing of perspectives, flashbacks, or
anything. It probably didn't happen just like this, but if you want a
simple interpretation, I think this one might do.
Now, why would Suzanne write a song about this??? Surely not to account
for what was going on in her mind during a few minutes when she was
waiting for her food in a restaurant! There must be something else...
My theory -- and of this I'm pretty sure -- is that something in the
situation fascinated Suzanne, meant something to her. But she didn't
quite know what. So she kept thinking about it, and eventually, she
wrote a song.
If this is what happened, can you really say that the song is *about*
sitting in a restaurant, wondering if the waitress has undergone a sex
change operation? I don't think so. It was certainly *inspired* by this
situation, but I would rather say that it is based on something inside
the poet: a true feeling, and an understanding of the world and of
other people based on personal experience. The transvestite, and the
situation (s)he seemed to be in, had a *symbolic* significance for
Suzanne (I'm certainly not implying that she has been a transvestite
herself!), and in the process of writing, this largely intuitive
understanding was constellated into a poetic image, a song, that can
mean something to all of us.
I think this is the power of great art: To discover the general in the
particular; the meaning and significance in the mundane.
This is why I think a symbolic interpretation is more interesting than
a "simple, prosaic" one. In a way, we are on shakier ground trying to
find symbolic meanings -- that's why I started this thread in the first
place -- but at the same time we are not. Mutually exclusive symbolical
interpretations can coexist peacefully, just like a ray of light is
both a particle and an electromagnetic wave at the same time, depending
on how we, as observers, look at it.
So here is my personal metaphorical interpretation. First, though, I
want to make it absolutely clear that I'm talking about what the song
means to *me* -- I know virtually nothing about the psychology or
physiology of transvestitism -- so please don't call me prejudiced.
What do I recognise in the transvestite? The feeling of not being at
home where I have been placed, that the life I'm living is not
authentically mine. That is has been imposed on me from the outside.
That it is "living suicide", to quote the title of a song Suzanne wrote
in her teens. So I want to find my true life somewhere else. The
transvestite could also be a symbol of someone who has actually managed
to take his/her life in his/her own hand -- and that's the beauty of
it. But not without sacrifice, so there must be a dark (hidden, unseen,
unconscious, painful, perhaps evil) side, too.
This is where I though the question, "Did you ever keep the date / With
the steel side of the knife", could reveal something interesting
through a double meaning of the word 'date". I may have been wrong, or
perhaps my language, inspired by the bulk of Jungian literature I've
been reading lately, was unintelligible. So I'll try to repeat my point
a bit more clearly.
Let us assume that the main meaning is, "Did you undergo an operation
to change your sex?" Let us also pretend, for a moment, that the lines
have a second meaning, "Did you ever record/mark your life with the
sharpness of a knife?" Together, these two interpretations could mean,
that the poetic significance of the operation was to make life
tangible, real, and authentic by making a cut that separates old and
new, infinitely close, yet totally different, like the two sides of the
edge of the knife.
Despite the fact that this interpretation doesn't seem to appeal to
anyone else, it continues to fascinate me. But I have also learned a
lot from all your postings. Perhaps the most interesting is that the
operation seems to be so central in the song. I guess I had ignored
that aspect (an act of repression, to be sure). A surgical operation,
in itself, has a tremendous symbolic significance, not to mention the
physiological one. I remember what I felt when I read that Suzanne had
been delivered by c-section...
Before signing off, here is a quotation from an interview with Suzanne
that I think expresses almost everything I've tried to say in this
post:
"A lot of people say I'm very observational, but I'm really much more
involved than I pretend. These are not just clinical observations about
people. There is a direct connection between me and the person I'm
writing about. There was a boy named Luka but he was not abused. He's
probably shocked to death that I put him in this song.
"[In] the things I'm writing about, I'm revealing some facet of my own
life. It's something that I've seen or been involved with. It's not
just a question of reading a paper and saying, 'That's a good topic. I
think I'll write a Gulf War song.' That to me is too academic. I think,
in order for it to ring true, you have to know what you're talking
about. It's not enough just to *look* and say, 'This is what I deduce.'
You have to be involved."
/Hugo
P.S. Perhaps it's time to start a new thread on the song Undertow. I
think a lot more could be said about that song...
P.P.S. Please do send me a copy of your 79k analysis of Wooden Horse, Bob.
From MARION.KIPPERS@wkap.nl Mon Mar 6 19:31:55 1995
Hi all,
While browsing through some old copies of 'Language'
(published by the Suzanne Vega Info Center) I came across the
Suzanne Vega / Leonard Cohen double interview, and in it
Suzanne talks about "As Girls Go" as well, amongst many many
other things. I hope this doesn't kill the threads with all
your interpretations - I'm never any good at interpreting
lyrics myself, or rather, at putting my interpretations into
words, especially in another language, but I enjoy reading
them. :)
Here's what she said about "As Girls Go" back then.
"In that song it's wondering how far did this person take
their own wish to be somebody else. You know, that's a song
about a woman, by all appearances she's a woman except that
you know she's a man. So you see someone like this who seems
very rare. This one particular person had a very rare quality
which you could kind of understand after you realized what her
situation was. But, it didn't explain everything. It just made
her extremely attractive and so you felt yourself drawn into
her because of this rare quality and then you start to wonder
how far did the whole thing go, and does the whole thing go.
How much pain does this person put themselves through in order
to present this extremely attractive appearance, this
extremely graceful and beautiful appearance. So that was my
question. I mean, I never found out the answer. I didn't need
to know the answer. It was more just the way this person was
alluring."
(Suzanne Vega in Language, Vol. 6, no 1, February 1993. The
meeting with Leonard Cohen took place sometime in Autumn
1992.)
Best wishes,
Marion
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:09:29 +1300 (NZDT)
Bob King wrote:
> Then Suzanne expresses her curiosity: "What happened
For this bit I think Suzanne was trying to say that
she (the transsexual) was 'more girl than girls'
are because she was so positive about her femaleness
that she had to change her gender despite the biological
evidence. Most women don't have the same conviction
on femininity - because they just are and don't think
about it..
> question. "Dark side of a life" could refer to "dark" as in hidden,
Or dark as in hidden... her secret that she keeps from
the people she meets..
> But we also we have this really weird shift into first person
I just took this as the curtain being a metaphor for
her skirt. Suzy was just curious about what was (or wasn't!)
between her legs.. 'if I pull this (skirt) off, would I
know for certain?', whether she had had the surgery ('felt
the steel side of the knife').
> My main theory is that these are the thoughts of the crossdresser
I disagree. In the early days of this list, someone posted
that they had heard that this song was just about a waitress
in a bar that Suzanne had been in.
I think that the straightforward explanation works best.
It's just expressing Suzannes curiousity about this
person, albeit in her inimitable poetic style which we
all love.
Paul
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 11:41:43 -0500
Ok, my 2c...
On the one hand, I line up with the straightforward explanation folks--the
sex-change thing makes perfect sense. I would not have assumed that Suzanne
was striving for ambiguity here as much as for an original, memorable turn of
phrase-- sort of in the (midcareer era) Joni Mitchell school of
songwriting... a lyric fragment of Joni's comes particularly to mind: she
once sang the words "between the forceps and the stone" to mean "from birth
to death." Obviously the second way is the direct meaning, but the first way
is a great turn of phrase, and anything that makes you stop and interpret for
a moment or two provides, IMO, a richer experience as a
listener/reader/whatever.
On the other hand, Hugo does bring up an interesting point:
>there must be some, conscious or unconscious, intention, and
With artists whose work you value, speculation on unconscious intention can,
obviously, be an interesting exercise. My mind is sorta blank right now, but
I seem to remember some recurring knife and/or cutting imagery in other SV
songs-- "Straight Lines" come immediately to mind but I'm sure there are
others.. Haven't thought too long or hard about what this may mean. Plus, of
course, there's the ongoing, underlying flesh/blood motif for the whole
"99.9F" album, so asking about a sex-change operation in a way that
accentuates the, um, mutilation involved probably fits in.
Now, gee, why am i rambling on and on about this? Clearly, because I have
work of my own to do and I'm *procrastinating* big time..
Till next time..
Jeremy
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 13:18:45 CST
Hello everyone,
Another agreement with the straightforward line on the meaning of
'steel side of the knife.' But also...
Jeremy wrote:
Another one is (curiously enough) 'Undertow', specifically the lines
I wanted to learn all the secrets from the edge of a knife/
[cut: click here to go to the Undertow thread]
-Rob
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 23:09:19 -0500
>> I think the simple, prosaic, boring
What in the world are you talking about? There _is_ no "simple, prosaic,
boring interpretation" of those line... it _is_ a metaphor. There is not a
"straight forward" way to interpret the lines. If it was not meant to be
interpreted in a metaphoric way it would say "did you ever have the
sex-change operation?"
Suzanne is, in the best traditions of poetics and songwriting, saying
something in an artistic way, and so lines might be able to be interpreted in
many ways. As an English major that studies all kinds of works of art
involving language and as a writer I resent this implication that one
interpretation is "better" than another, especially for these kind of deep
metaphoric lines. _Any_ interpretation is valid if you can show some sort of
evidence and/or background to back it up. That is what you did and that is
what I did.
Let's swap ideas... they are all interesting...
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 02:44:54 -0500 (est)
[cut]
First of all, let me add my vote for the sex-change operation
interpretation of "steel side of the knife." That's how I've heard it
from the start.
[cut: click here to go to the Undertow thread]
Moshe Feder ===> ===> ===> ===> moshe@amanda.dorsai.org
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 15:01:01 +0200 (METDST)
Okey, folks, here is my SIMPLE interpretation of As Girls Go:
The narrator, I venture to call her Suzanne, is sitting in a local
restaurant, waiting for her food. She is looking at the waitress, a
stunning girl. She never really thought of it before -- but there is
something vaguely masculine about the waitress. Still, she looks very
much like a girl...
You make a really good girl
"But there IS something strange about her... Could she be a guy
underneath? I wonder...
If I could pull this off
"Well, there's something unnatural about the her, something strained,
but she is very beautiful none the less...
So beautiful
"Must be a guy ... she looks too feminine ... a transvestite. Or maybe
she's had an operation. But why?
What happened to you?
"I guess I'll never know. I wonder if she even asks herself... She
seems alright so far...
Would you ever show or tell
"But if we dig a bit... What happened, really?
Let's chronicle
"Well, it's really none of my business... Besides, it really doesn't
matter.
Doesn't matter to me
"And she looks good..."
You make a really good girl...
***
Suzanne is just sitting there, observing and thinking to herself. No
need for a dialogue, changing of perspectives, flashbacks, or
anything. It probably didn't happen just like this, but if you want a
simple interpretation, I think this one might do.
Now, why would Suzanne write a song about this??? Surely not to account
for what was going on in her mind during a few minutes when she was
waiting for her food in a restaurant! There must be something else...
My theory -- and of this I'm pretty sure -- is that something in the
situation fascinated Suzanne, meant something to her. But she didn't
quite know what. So she kept thinking about it, and eventually, she
wrote a song.
If this is what happened, can you really say that the song is *about*
sitting in a restaurant, wondering if the waitress has undergone a sex
change operation? I don't think so. It was certainly *inspired* by this
situation, but I would rather say that it is based on something inside
the poet: a true feeling, and an understanding of the world and of
other people based on personal experience. The transvestite, and the
situation (s)he seemed to be in, had a *symbolic* significance for
Suzanne (I'm certainly not implying that she has been a transvestite
herself!), and in the process of writing, this largely intuitive
understanding was constellated into a poetic image, a song, that can
mean something to all of us.
I think this is the power of great art: To discover the general in the
particular; the meaning and significance in the mundane.
This is why I think a symbolic interpretation is more interesting than
a "simple, prosaic" one. In a way, we are on shakier ground trying to
find symbolic meanings -- that's why I started this thread in the first
place -- but at the same time we are not. Mutually exclusive symbolical
interpretations can coexist peacefully, just like a ray of light is
both a particle and an electromagnetic wave at the same time, depending
on how we, as observers, look at it.
So here is my personal metaphorical interpretation. First, though, I
want to make it absolutely clear that I'm talking about what the song
means to *me* -- I know virtually nothing about the psychology or
physiology of transvestitism -- so please don't call me prejudiced.
What do I recognise in the transvestite? The feeling of not being at
home where I have been placed, that the life I'm living is not
authentically mine. That is has been imposed on me from the outside.
That it is "living suicide", to quote the title of a song Suzanne wrote
in her teens. So I want to find my true life somewhere else. The
transvestite could also be a symbol of someone who has actually managed
to take his/her life in his/her own hand -- and that's the beauty of
it. But not without sacrifice, so there must be a dark (hidden, unseen,
unconscious, painful, perhaps evil) side, too.
This is where I though the question, "Did you ever keep the date / With
the steel side of the knife", could reveal something interesting
through a double meaning of the word 'date". I may have been wrong, or
perhaps my language, inspired by the bulk of Jungian literature I've
been reading lately, was unintelligible. So I'll try to repeat my point
a bit more clearly.
Let us assume that the main meaning is, "Did you undergo an operation
to change your sex?" Let us also pretend, for a moment, that the lines
have a second meaning, "Did you ever record/mark your life with the
sharpness of a knife?" Together, these two interpretations could mean,
that the poetic significance of the operation was to make life
tangible, real, and authentic by making a cut that separates old and
new, infinitely close, yet totally different, like the two sides of the
edge of the knife.
Despite the fact that this interpretation doesn't seem to appeal to
anyone else, it continues to fascinate me. But I have also learned a
lot from all your postings. Perhaps the most interesting is that the
operation seems to be so central in the song. I guess I had ignored
that aspect (an act of repression, to be sure). A surgical operation,
in itself, has a tremendous symbolic significance, not to mention the
physiological one. I remember what I felt when I read that Suzanne had
been delivered by c-section...
Before signing off, here is a quotation from an interview with Suzanne
that I think expresses almost everything I've tried to say in this
post:
"A lot of people say I'm very observational, but I'm really much more
involved than I pretend. These are not just clinical observations about
people. There is a direct connection between me and the person I'm
writing about. There was a boy named Luka but he was not abused. He's
probably shocked to death that I put him in this song.
"[In] the things I'm writing about, I'm revealing some facet of my own
life. It's something that I've seen or been involved with. It's not
just a question of reading a paper and saying, 'That's a good topic. I
think I'll write a Gulf War song.' That to me is too academic. I think,
in order for it to ring true, you have to know what you're talking
about. It's not enough just to *look* and say, 'This is what I deduce.'
You have to be involved."
/Hugo
P.S. Perhaps it's time to start a new thread on the song Undertow. I
think a lot more could be said about that song...
P.P.S. Please do send me a copy of your 79k analysis of Wooden Horse, Bob.
From MARION.KIPPERS@wkap.nl Mon Mar 6 19:31:55 1995
Hi all,
While browsing through some old copies of 'Language'
(published by the Suzanne Vega Info Center) I came across the
Suzanne Vega / Leonard Cohen double interview, and in it
Suzanne talks about "As Girls Go" as well, amongst many many
other things. I hope this doesn't kill the threads with all
your interpretations - I'm never any good at interpreting
lyrics myself, or rather, at putting my interpretations into
words, especially in another language, but I enjoy reading
them. :)
Here's what she said about "As Girls Go" back then.
"In that song it's wondering how far did this person take
their own wish to be somebody else. You know, that's a song
about a woman, by all appearances she's a woman except that
you know she's a man. So you see someone like this who seems
very rare. This one particular person had a very rare quality
which you could kind of understand after you realized what her
situation was. But, it didn't explain everything. It just made
her extremely attractive and so you felt yourself drawn into
her because of this rare quality and then you start to wonder
how far did the whole thing go, and does the whole thing go.
How much pain does this person put themselves through in order
to present this extremely attractive appearance, this
extremely graceful and beautiful appearance. So that was my
question. I mean, I never found out the answer. I didn't need
to know the answer. It was more just the way this person was
alluring."
(Suzanne Vega in Language, Vol. 6, no 1, February 1993. The
meeting with Leonard Cohen took place sometime in Autumn
1992.)
Best wishes,
Marion
Subj: "Date with the knife"
As a pre-op (before sugery) transsexual woman, the words are quite clear
to me. The "date" is the sugery date. Much conversation with my fellow
transsexual women friends includes questions and statements about "Do you
have a date?" or "When is a your date?" for Sexual Reassgiment Sugery
(SRS).
The "dark side" is that sugery at best is a Faustian bargin. You don't
know how much feeling and sensitivity you will lose. You don't know much
much function you will gain. You do know you will pay thousands of
dollars of an unknown result. You man never be orgasmic again. What is
removed is lost forever. That is definitlly a dark side gamble
The question of the song is "What makes you a woman?" The curiosity is
"Does surgry make you a woman?" The short answer is NO. I knew I had a
"woman's sprit" long before I ever starting living as a woman. What
convenced me beyond a shadow of doubt that "I am woman" is the acceptance
and validation I got from non-transsexual woman. They recoginzed and
accepted me as "one of them" long before I could accept my being woman.
What really pisses me off is the implication that the words have any
thing to do with committing violence and harm by transsexual women. I
find that typical projection of the Male violence culture that all people
are forced to live in. Anything that seems to threat some poor male ego
is attacked with vingence and mayhem. (See what OJ did to Nicol) If
anything, both transsexual and non-transsexual women are beaten, raped,
murdered and other wise abused by "MEN" because we don't validate their
male egos. There is nothing I can ever do add to or detract from a
"man's" ego. That is totally in his control. But these men want to blame
women for their lack of being a man.
Subj: As Girls Go
I agree with Dani's interpretation of "dark side of a life." I would just like
to throw in my 2 cents worth...
In my opinion, another possible interpretation of As Girls Go is that it is a
song to an object of desire who may have a past (dark side of a life) which the
narrator is willing to accept unconditionally.
Julie
Please send your comments, suggestions, submissions to:
VegaNet
VegaNet@aol.com
From: Moshe Feder
To: Undertow
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow
Typos unintentionla >>>FIAWOL<<< days: 718-461-5302
From: Hugo Westerlund ipm <Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se>
To: Undertow <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
As girls go
Still kind of look like a guy
I never thought to wonder why
Would I know for certain
The real situation
Behind the curtain
Damsel in distress
Not exactly natural
But stunning none the less
To make you more girl than girls are
Cause you're so good so far
The dark side of a life
Did you ever keep the date
With the steel side of the knife
Which side of the line
You happen to be
At any given time
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 22:45:13 +0100
From: Marion Kippers <MARION.KIPPERS@wkap.nl>
To: Non Receipt Notification Requested <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: As Girls Go
______________________________________________________________
Marion Kippers Wolters Kluwer Academic Publishers
Automation Department Dordrecht, The Netherlands
Marion.Kippers@wkap.nl Now playing: Loreena McKennitt - Live
______________________________________________________________
From: Moeroa <Paul_Lebeau@equinox.gen.nz>
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
> to you ..." ("more girl than girls are" probably refers to the
> other person dressing/acting more femininely than biological
> women generally care to)
I agree with most of your interpretation, although
my read on it is slightly different on a couple of points.
> since the status of a person's genitals is kind of a private
> matter, or dark as in "gloomy, dismal," referring to whatever
> early in the song, and that starts to throw my theory off: "If I
> could pull this off/would I know for certain/the real situation/
> behind the curtain."
> wondering if he can be accepted as a woman in society and, by
> being treated as one, learn the secrets of what many guys tend
> to regard as the mysteries of women's lives. (Such as, what DO they
> talk about in the bathroom together?)
From: Jeremy513@aol.com
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
>therefore I think alternative symbolic (rather than metaphorical)
>interpretations arecalled for
From: Rob Walters <rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com>
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow
>I seem to remember some recurring knife and/or cutting imagery in other SV
>songs-- "Straight Lines" come immediately to mind but I'm sure there are
>others.. Haven't thought too long or hard about what this may mean.
from the point of a needle, from a diamond, from a bullet in flight.
rwalters@sugarland.unocal.com
From: TIMEWARP23@aol.com
To: undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
>> interpretation makes the most sense: the song is a
>> conversation with a crossdresser or transsexual, and the
>> "steel side of the knife" question refers to the sex-change
>> operation.
From: Moshe Feder
To: Undertow
Subject: Re: Steel Side -> Undertow
Typos unintentionla >>>FIAWOL<<< days: 718-461-5302
From: Hugo Westerlund ipm <Hugo.Westerlund@ipm.ki.se>
To: Undertow <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Steel Side of the Knife
As girls go
Still kind of look like a guy
I never thought to wonder why
Would I know for certain
The real situation
Behind the curtain
Damsel in distress
Not exactly natural
But stunning none the less
To make you more girl than girls are
Cause you're so good so far
The dark side of a life
Did you ever keep the date
With the steel side of the knife
Which side of the line
You happen to be
At any given time
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 22:45:13 +0100
From: Marion Kippers <MARION.KIPPERS@wkap.nl>
To: Non Receipt Notification Requested <undertow@law.lawlib.emory.edu>
Subject: As Girls Go
______________________________________________________________
Marion Kippers Wolters Kluwer Academic Publishers
Automation Department Dordrecht, The Netherlands
Marion.Kippers@wkap.nl Now playing: Loreena McKennitt - Live
______________________________________________________________
From: richard@capmed.com (dani)
To: veganet@aol.com
Date: 96-07-22 08:21:39 EDT
Date: 96-07-23 01:59:35 EDT
From: 100232.712@compuserve.com (Julie Chan)
Sender: owner-undertow@law.emory.edu
To: undertow@serv4.law.emory.edu (all)
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